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rebu

Shark tooth ?

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rebu

Hi friends, I have four of these shark teeth and I will like to know how the tooth gets to this state. Is it hollowed by somebody or is it found like this? How does this happen that you get only the outer shell of the tooth? Maybe this is common but I have never seen one before today. 

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Wolf89

These are teeth that are not fully developed yet

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rebu

Thank you for your help Wolf89 and gigantoraptor. Very interesting. They very fragile, it's great that something like that survives such a long time. I got it with few otodus obliquus teeth which came from one specimen, can it be from the same shark?

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Plax

I have seen teeth like this at several sites. At these sites the teeth are leached leaving only the enamel portion. One of the sites was at the base of the early Campanian Merchantville Formation in New Jersey. At other sites I have seen them preserved like this in very weathered sections.

  Had never heard of underdeveloped shark teeth with just the enamel preserved in the fossil record. I learned something new today!

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rebu
49 minutes ago, Plax said:

I have seen teeth like this at several sites. At these sites the teeth are leached leaving only the enamel portion. One of the sites was at the base of the early Campanian Merchantville Formation in New Jersey. At other sites I have seen them preserved like this in very weathered sections.

  Had never heard of underdeveloped shark teeth with just the enamel preserved in the fossil record. I learned something new today!

Thank you for the info. I think you are right, on the third and fourth tooth you can still see what is left of the rest of the tooth inside (photo no.3). 

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sixgill pete
8 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

They are natural shark teeth, I've found similar (hollow) teeth in Rumst, Belgium.

Hollow teeth are always missing the roots. When a shark forms their teeth the enamel (what you have) is created before the rooth and the dentin. If a shark dies when the teeth have not completely been formed yet they can be preserved being hollow (so just the enamel). 

The enamel is the strongest part in the body, so it's possible the rooth and the dentin are just worn away leaving the enamel. 

 

 These are the last tooth in the rows of un-erupted teeth in sharks. They are just starting to develop and have not formed the roots yet.

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rebu
4 hours ago, sixgill pete said:

 These are the last tooth in the rows of un-erupted teeth in sharks. They are just starting to develop and have not formed the roots yet.

Thank you for your info. So inside of the third and fourth tooth is part of a root which is starting to develop?

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ynot
1 hour ago, rebu said:

So inside of the third and fourth tooth is part of a root which is starting to develop?

More likely to be sediment from being buried.

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Coco

Hi,

 

On a Prionace glauca jaw that I prepared myself, I can observe that only one row of teeth was active, but three others were in formation (covered with gingival tissue). The teeth in the last row, the ones that are least developed, are hollow, they only have enamel.
 
For me these teeth are clearly forming teeth, they are not emptied or leached by fossilization.
 
Coco

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rebu
4 hours ago, Coco said:

Hi,

 

On a Prionace glauca jaw that I prepared myself, I can observe that only one row of teeth was active, but three others were in formation (covered with gingival tissue). The teeth in the last row, the ones that are least developed, are hollow, they only have enamel.
 
For me these teeth are clearly forming teeth, they are not emptied or leached by fossilization.
 
Coco

Thank you for your input. Very interesting observation, I believe now these are the undeveloped teeth. I love this forum and all the amazing knowledgeable people here. Thanks again to everyone.

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Al Dente

Were these 4 teeth the only teeth found at this site or were there a bunch of teeth and only these 4 were hollow?

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sharkdoctor

 @Al Dente makes a great point. Context is important. In the Calvert Formation, we see similar developing teeth in intact horizons that also produce intact adult teeth. In heavily leached horizons, the roots of all teeth are leached to the point of being dust. The light color of these teeth could suggest leaching. When wave action eats these leached teeth out of the horizon, the root is removed by the water.

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rebu
4 hours ago, Al Dente said:

Were these 4 teeth the only teeth found at this site or were there a bunch of teeth and only these 4 were hollow?

These 4 teeth was found with many Otodus Obliquus teeth (about 40) and only these 4 was hollow and this color the other teeth are almost perfect. I have all these teeth by me, can take some photos if you want.

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Al Dente
6 minutes ago, rebu said:

only these 4 was hollow and this color

If the other teeth are darker in color, I would think these 4 are leached and the roots have dissolved.

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rebu
3 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

If the other teeth are darker in color, I would think these 4 are leached and the roots have dissolved.

Thank you for your help, so most probably they are not undeveloped teeth after all. Just want to ask, can these undeveloped teeth what people mentioned here be so big? 

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Al Dente
57 minutes ago, rebu said:

can these undeveloped teeth what people mentioned here be so big? 

Yes, the enamel shell of an undeveloped tooth will be the same size as the enamel part of a fully formed tooth.

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The Jersey Devil
On 1/23/2019 at 2:38 PM, Plax said:

I have seen teeth like this at several sites. At these sites the teeth are leached leaving only the enamel portion. One of the sites was at the base of the early Campanian Merchantville Formation in New Jersey. At other sites I have seen them preserved like this in very weathered sections.

  Had never heard of underdeveloped shark teeth with just the enamel preserved in the fossil record. I learned something new today!

 

Hi Plax,

Would you say that the NJ teeth are all hollowed out by the usual leaching, or is it possible to sometimes find an actual underdeveloped one? My bet is that it would be very hard to tell and they are likely almost always leached.

 

Joseph

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sharkdoctor

Fascinating thread.

In considering this thread, I got to wondering about the theoretically available number of undeveloped teeth in a given horizon. It seems that the only way that undeveloped teeth make it into the fossil record is through the death or dismemberment of the shark. That would account for why they are so scarce relative to developed teeth. Does that seem reasonable @Al Dente?

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Al Dente
1 hour ago, sharkdoctor said:

Does that seem reasonable @Al Dente?

Seems reasonable to me but I would add that the undeveloped teeth are very fragile and might get crushed and pulverized before they get a chance to become fossils.

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rebu

Thank you all for interesting information and theories. So there is no way to be able to say for sure if the teeth are undeveloped or leached. Is this correct? If there is cluster of teeth found and only few is like these isn't there big chance that it will be undeveloped teeth? Should not be the whole cluster leached if some teeth are? Or at least have some signs of leaching.

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ynot
1 hour ago, rebu said:

So there is no way to be able to say for sure if the teeth are undeveloped or leached. Is this correct?

No way to be 100% sure. So yes.

1 hour ago, rebu said:

If there is cluster of teeth found and only few is like these isn't there big chance that it will be undeveloped teeth?

If they are found as "float" then they could be sorted by the environment. So it is still hard to be positive.

1 hour ago, rebu said:

Should not be the whole cluster leached if some teeth are? Or at least have some signs of leaching.

There can be a mix of many states of preservation within a deposit. There can be cracks or discrete bedding, within the formation, where teeth are more likely to be "leached" .

If the teeth are not found in the original bed it is impossible to say what is going on.

 

 

I would go with unerupted teeth if they are  just a few that have no dentin or root where most teeth found there do have the dentine and root preserved.

But there is no way to be 100% on this.

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rebu
6 minutes ago, ynot said:

No way to be 100% sure. So yes.

If they are found as "float" then they could be sorted by the environment. So it is still hard to be positive.

There can be a mix of many states of preservation within a deposit. There can be cracks or discrete bedding, within the formation, where teeth are more likely to be "leached" .

If the teeth are not found in the original bed it is impossible to say what is going on.

 

 

I would go with unerupted teeth if they are  just a few that have no dentin or root where most teeth found there do have the dentine and root preserved.

But there is no way to be 100% on this.

Thank you for your help, well explained. I am glad I posted these photos, learned a lot. Are you a shark tooth collector? 

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ynot
3 hours ago, rebu said:

Are you a shark tooth collector? 

I am a nut case for lithified life.

Yes I do have a selection of shark teeth in My collection.

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Plax
On 1/24/2019 at 7:25 PM, The Jersey Devil said:

 

Hi Plax,

Would you say that the NJ teeth are all hollowed out by the usual leaching, or is it possible to sometimes find an actual underdeveloped one? My bet is that it would be very hard to tell and they are likely almost always leached.

 

Joseph

At the rt 90 construction all the teeth were hollow and rootless. At the Woodbury site most were hollow and even splintering apart. Have seen neogene teeth down here in NC just hollow shells also.

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