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Gideon

Cone from Isle of Wight wealden

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Tidgy's Dad

Wow! Great finds.:)

Never seen anything like those in the Wealden. But fairly sure they are 'pine' cones of some sort. 

Marvelous. 

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jpc

those are great.  Nice find. 

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Fossildude19

Beautiful Cones!  :wub: 

 

Barremian definition, ... for those like me, who had to look it up. :blush:

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Manticocerasman

Those are cool :D

I only found fossil wood in the wealden clay of Wight.

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JohnBrewer

Stunning cones, great find Henry. I visit the i o w a couple of times a year to hunt. Never been to Chilton Chine tho. 

 

Do you have ‘Plant Fossils of the British Coal Measures’ that may help. Or maybe @paleoflor could give some input. 

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Aurelius

I collected some decent wood from the Wealden clay, but nothing as fantastic as this. I've been working on preserving my wood with a sugar water solution. Only a few pieces have been desalinated and treated so far, but they are holding up fine after about 3 months.

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Gideon

Thanks for the ID as likely pine cone tidgys dad.

 

And ill look into that reference you suggested john.

 

Aurelius, I'd be interested to hear how the sugar/water works out long term. I had some success with a pva water mix in the past. It held together a large log of wood a while ago. It began to crumble after a couple of years, but I think it was instigated by the corrosion of the large sections of pyrite decaying first.

 

 

 

 

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Gideon

Just to add....the main reason Im looking at paraloid, is that im trying to keep the clay in place as well, and I assume other methods involving water would just turn it to sludge?

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abyssunder

Maybe similar hexagonal patterns are on Goniolina hexagona thallus.

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Ludwigia

Lovely cone! Sorry I can't help with the id, but I just wanted to say that that's a great find. Hopefully paleoflor or maybe @Plantguy can be of help to you.

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Plantguy
13 hours ago, Ludwigia said:

Lovely cone! Sorry I can't help with the id, but I just wanted to say that that's a great find. Hopefully paleoflor or maybe @Plantguy can be of help to you.

Those are gorgeous cones arent they! Must have been an awesome depositional event!

Unfortunately I dont know much about Mesozoic cones at all. The one on the right reminds me of some cycad material I saw awhile back but that is just speculation and should be considered that...Seems to be alot of documentation out there on Wealden plants as I did a quick look...So that must be an awesome formation to do hunting. I'll poke around and if I find anything that helps with the ID's I'll let you all know. 

 

Very nice finds Henry!

Regards, Chris 

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KimTexan

Lovely cones!! Very nice.

I was thinking cycad too. It looks like a female cone. They are shorter and wider than male cones. The male ones are longer and more slender. I believe cycads are either male or female plants.

Here are a couple images from googling cycad fruit. They’re cones with fruit.

FA3236CF-0B56-43B2-AACB-0383CF1E97CF.jpeg.d5fe2304253e048893b7634cafd79461.jpeg

 

7548D006-0872-4870-9A58-C41C9DA888DD.thumb.jpeg.60a69e1e6e3937ac5d75399136fe691d.jpeg

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Gideon

Thanks for all the pointers guys.

 

If I come up with a likely ID ill make sure I post it.

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Carl

FOTM!!!!

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JohnJ
3 hours ago, Carl said:

FOTM!!!!

 

:(

A month late...for such an exquisite find.

 

 

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Carl
1 minute ago, JohnJ said:

 

:(

A month late...for such an exquisite find.

 

 

:doh!:

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Gideon

Thanks for the vote of confidence Carl!

 

Although I found it in January, I prepped it in Feb. However, I don't have any photos of it pre-prepped, so it's still out of the running....Also, I don't know what it is!

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abyssunder

Have you tried to compare them with Classostrobus, male / female cones of Pseudofrenelopsis?

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Carl

This from a paleobotanist friend: Looks like Bennetticarpus, which  is a seed cone belonging to an extinct group of non-conifer gymnosperms, Bennettitales. 

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abyssunder

Take a look at Zamia female cone.

 

Female-cone-Zamia.jpg.a9e7c59fd1af278e10fe12707264dfe0.jpg

picture from here

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Gideon

Thanks Carl, and Abyssunder. They sound like very intriguing options. I'll have a look into it at the weekend.

 

I'm pretty sure ive seen Bennettitales mentioned before from the Wealden.

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abyssunder

" The flora includes few recognisable macrofossils, other than twigs, logs and occasional cones, but spores (Fig. 8C) and dispersed cuticles are abundant. It contains charophytes, pteridophytes, caytoniales, cycadophytes, gingkophytes, coniferophytes and angiosperms (Batten, 1975; Hughes,1975; Oldham, 1976; Alvin et al., 1981; Alvin, 1983; Collinson et al., 1999). Amber has been recorded from a number of plant debris beds (Stewart, 1978; Nicholas et al., 1993; Selden, 2002; Bray and Anderson, 2008; Jarzembowski et al., 2008) and infrared spectroscopy supports a coniferous origin for the original resin (Nicholas et al., 1993; Bray and Anderson, 2008). The conifer Pseudofrenelopsis parceramosa,appears to have been a dominant element in the flora, with perhaps just a few associated species (Oldham, l976; Watson and Alvin, 1996) but seeds and spores recently recovered while bulk screening for microvertebrate remains indicate that the flora was more diverse than previously recognized (Sweetman, 2007). The recorded flora suggests that the floodplain was covered by savannah or chaparral-like vegetation consisting of a ground cover primarily of pteridophytes with scattered, open conifer stands. Wildfires would have tended to prevent the development of dense growth of gymnosperms (Harris, 1981). At some horizons, large numbers of megaspores occur. Some of these probably represent aquatic plants and this suggests that some of the pools of standing water were colonised by such plants (Batten et al., 1996; Batten, 1998). "

 

excerpt from S. Sweetman & N. Insole, Allan. 2010. The plant debris beds of the Early Cretaceous (Barremian) Wessex Formation of the Isle of Wight, southern England: Their genesis and palaeontological significance. Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology. 292: 409-424

 

Bennettites gibsonianus, B. maximus, B. saxbyanus / Cycadites saxbyanus

 

Vardekloeftia sulcata

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Tidgy's Dad
2 minutes ago, piranha said:

A colleague suggested these cones could be Williamsonia.  I forwarded the photos to a Wealden paleobotany / bennettitalean specialist. 

Evidently this is a significant discovery. If you are interested in this proposal, please contact me via PM and I will send you the contact info. 

 

Thank you for your email and the nice image of these fantastic cones. I apologize for the delay in responding, but we are moving our fossil collections and that consumes quite a bit of my time … Your fossil find represents most likely mature cones (“fruits”) of some Bennettitales. It is difficult to say whether its Williamsonia joanwatsoniae as that species is dedicated predominantly to immature cones (“flowers”). However, it is not impossible that your cones might represent the mature cones of W. joanwatsoniae.

 

Since I haven’t yet seen such nice and excellently preserved cones from the Wealden in general and from Isle of Wight in special, may I ask if you would kindly provide these cones for a scientific examination and publication of the results? I would be highly interested in doing it. It would imply that I would ask you to send me the specimen(s) for examination with non-destructive methods (stereo microscope, fluorescence, and perhaps CT-scan for internal structures) and detailed photography. This can then, if it turns out to be publishable, end up in a joint publication.

 

What do you think?

How fantastic! 

What an opportunity.

And great work, Scott.:)

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