Kamp Ranch Texas Ptychodus Teeth

[fossilsonwheels]

I purchased some Ptychodus teeth and I can not determine the exact ID on my own. They are smaller than P. whippeli or P. mortoni teeth I have and bigger than the single P. anonymous tooth I have though that is the species I originally though, and still think these are. They are from the Kamp Ranch section of Eagle Ford in Texas. I consulted a very well put together ID guide here but am still just not sure what I have, other than nice Ptychodus teeth lol

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[Zenmaster6]

Hi, you did say any help, however,  I should not be trusted with identification (kinda new) but after comparing with P. Mortoni and P. Whipplei, they have more shapes of P. Whipplei.

Simply searching for P. Mortoni I cannot find many with defined markings like your tooth or P. Whipplei

P. Whipplei can be much smaller or much larger than a penny so their sizes range all over the place. 
Also Mortoni are from Kansas and if this is from Texas it might not be that.
Of course it could also be:
Ptychodus altior Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus anonymus Williston 1900
Ptychodus arcuatus Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus articulatus Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus belluccii Bonarelli 1899
Ptychodus concentricus Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus decurrens Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus elevatus Leriche 1929
Ptychodus gibberulus Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus janewayii Cope 1874
Ptychodus latissimus Agassiz 1843
Ptychodus mahakalensis Chiplonkar and Ghare 1977
Ptychodus mammillaris Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus marginalis Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus mortoni Agassiz 1843
Ptychodus multistriatus Woodward 1889
Ptychodus oweni Dixon 1850
Ptychodus paucisulcatus Dixon 1850
Ptychodus polygyrus Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus rugosus Dixon 1850
Ptychodus spectabili Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus whipplei Marcou 1858

GOOD LUCK!

[Heteromorph]

No doubt in my mind that the top two are Ptychodus whipplei. Their size and exact morphology can vary depending on their position in the mouth and the maturity of the shark. 

 

Sorry for for the picture quality (best I could find of it in my collection photographs), but here is a tiny P. whipplei that I found from the Kamp Ranch.

 

[Heteromorph]

1 hour ago, Zenmaster6 said:

Also Mortoni are from Kansas and if this is from Texas it might not be that.

For the record, Ptychodus mortoni are all over Texas from the basal Atco (lowermost Coniacian) to the Early Campanian. To my knowledge, no Ptychodus mortoni have been found in the Kamp Ranch (lower mid Turonian), but an interesting discussion about that can be found here. Either way, these are not P. mortoni. 

[fossilsonwheels]

1 hour ago, Heteromorph said:

No doubt in my mind that the top two are Ptychodus whipplei. Their size and exact morphology can vary depending on their position in the mouth and the maturity of the shark. 

 

Sorry for for the picture quality (best I could find of it in my collection photographs), but here is a tiny P. whipplei that I found from the Kamp Ranch.

 

Thank you very much !! This was helpful. Yeah I did not ever think mortoni on these teeth. I have a few from the Niobrara Chalk in Kansas so I was pretty sure the Texas teeth were not mortoni based on visual comparison. I did see a nice mortoni from Texas for sale recently though.

[fossilsonwheels]

2 hours ago, Zenmaster6 said:

Hi, you did say any help, however,  I should not be trusted with identification (kinda new) but after comparing with P. Mortoni and P. Whipplei, they have more shapes of P. Whipplei.

Simply searching for P. Mortoni I cannot find many with defined markings like your tooth or P. Whipplei

P. Whipplei can be much smaller or much larger than a penny so their sizes range all over the place. 
Also Mortoni are from Kansas and if this is from Texas it might not be that.
Of course it could also be:
Ptychodus altior Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus anonymus Williston 1900
Ptychodus arcuatus Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus articulatus Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus belluccii Bonarelli 1899
Ptychodus concentricus Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus decurrens Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus elevatus Leriche 1929
Ptychodus gibberulus Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus janewayii Cope 1874
Ptychodus latissimus Agassiz 1843
Ptychodus mahakalensis Chiplonkar and Ghare 1977
Ptychodus mammillaris Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus marginalis Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus mortoni Agassiz 1843
Ptychodus multistriatus Woodward 1889
Ptychodus oweni Dixon 1850
Ptychodus paucisulcatus Dixon 1850
Ptychodus polygyrus Agassiz 1839
Ptychodus rugosus Dixon 1850
Ptychodus spectabili Agassiz 1837
Ptychodus whipplei Marcou 1858

GOOD LUCK!

Thank you. ID on Ptychodus teeth is actually a fun exercise for a novice. There is a lot of information and I learned some new stuff by posting this. P. whipplei seems to be the answer, at least on the first two teeth.

[Heteromorph]

1 hour ago, fossilsonwheels said:

Thank you very much !! This was helpful. Yeah I did not ever think mortoni on these teeth. I have a few from the Niobrara Chalk in Kansas so I was pretty sure the Texas teeth were not mortoni based on visual comparison. I did see a nice mortoni from Texas for sale recently though.

You’re very welcome! From my experience, P. whipplei is the most common Ptychodus species in the Turonian and lower Coniacian, while P. mortoni is around the 3-2nd most common Ptychodus species in the lower Coniacian Atco. After that, P. whipplei goes extinct and P. mortoni is generally the most common. 

 

So far my best Ptychodus find is a set of at least 5 associated P. mortoni from the lower Coniacian Atco, just above the basal Atco. It isn't prepped yet, so there are probably more teeth in the rock. 

 

[Heteromorph]

[fossilsonwheels]

That is AWESOME !!!!!

[Heteromorph]

27 minutes ago, fossilsonwheels said:

That is AWESOME !!!!!

And heavy. About 80-90 lbs. Helps to have a hunting buddy.

[LSCHNELLE]

fossilsonwheels, I think that Heteromorph's P. whipplei ID is probably correct for the first two.  However, just to make certain, can you send a side view of the tooth from the side? There is another possible ID depending on crown height.  If you could send measurements of the tooth width vs tooth height vs crown height, that might also be helpful. 

[fossilsonwheels]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:14 AM, LSCHNELLE said:

fossilsonwheels, I think that Heteromorph's P. whipplei ID is probably correct for the first two.  However, just to make certain, can you send a side view of the tooth from the side? There is another possible ID depending on crown height.  If you could send measurements of the tooth width vs tooth height vs crown height, that might also be helpful. 

I will work on those measurements at work this week so yes I can get this for you.

[Jared C]

I would actually like to revive this topic with a possible alternative:

While I'm not versed in North Texas formations, I believe the Kamp Ranch is middle Turonian and so correlates with the South Bosque member of the Eagle Ford here. While @Heteromorph may very well be right with a P.whipplei ID, some of the Ptychodus teeth I've found down here are actually of an up and coming species that should be getting described this year, and your teeth remind me of it. 

 

Here are two examples I've found in the South Bosque of the soon to be described Ptychodus - both were ID'd by Shawn Hamm, who will be the main author on the paper.

1)

 

2)

 

Now, I can't tell you what features actually set it apart as a species, because I don't know yet, so I won't be able to ID your teeth as such - however, I do see a resemblance, be it superficial or not, and the timeline matches. @LSCHNELLE however does know how to ID this species, as he's more in the loop with Hamm than I am (so far!)

 

If you want to read the interesting discussion of me dazed and confused after first finding these in fossil ID, read here