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Pterygotus

Rarity of this afrovenator tooth?

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Pterygotus

I saw this afrovenator atakensis tooth from the tiouraren formation, niger with no repair or restoration. What is the rarity of it and quality?( common, uncommon, rare, fairly rare, ultra rare or almost never seen) does the broken tip affect this? Thank you. It is described as unbroken and incredibly rare.

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paulyb135

That is a super tooth in my opinion but the seller is asking for way too much money.

 

The size and condition is really top quality despite the minor wear to the tip. 

 

I would say it js pretty rare/very rare but there is a chance something similar could come up at some point in the future 

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Jaimin013

Hi there, I don't believe this is an afrovenator tooth and I also know the site selling it and it is soo highly priced. I would say it is a nano tooth..but at the end of the day isolated teeth like this are hard to ID so it's an indeterminate tooth.

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Pterygotus

Also does anyone else have any afrovenator material?

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Pterygotus
2 minutes ago, gigantoraptor said:

If this is Afrovenator (which I don't think it is but I'm no expert) then it's ultra rare. They are not often on the market but a few members here own one. 

 

For more information on theropod teeth from Niger I advise this topic: 

 

Could you ask for a serrations density?

Does that mean it is worth the price the seller is asking for?

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Pterygotus
5 minutes ago, paulyb135 said:

That is a super tooth in my opinion but the seller is asking for way too much money.

 

The size and condition is really top quality despite the minor wear to the tip. 

 

I would say it js pretty rare/very rare but there is a chance something similar could come up at some point in the future 

Is it not worth the price?

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gigantoraptor
Just now, Pterygotus said:

Does that mean it is worth the price the seller is asking for?

I don't know the price and we don't give values here. A tooth is worth what you are Willing to pay for it.

 

Since I don't think it's Afrovenator and I have no idea what it could be, I wouldn't pay too much money unless I was 100% sure it's from that formation In Niger.

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paulyb135

Here is my afrovenator tooth. You can see the difference 

 

I dont believe it is an afrovenator and i also dont think it is a nanotyrannus. I’m not sure what it is but it’s a nice looking tooth and a decent size. That’s all I can say

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TyBoy
1 hour ago, paulyb135 said:

Here is my afrovenator tooth. You can see the difference 

 

I dont believe it is an afrovenator and i also dont think it is a nanotyrannus. I’m not sure what it is but it’s a nice looking tooth and a decent size. That’s all I can say

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Abstraktum said:

 

 

I just throw in my Afrovenator tooth. It's from the same lot and original seller as @paulyb135 tooth. 

Everybody who is familiar with this lot: I got tooth Nr. 10. (thx again to @lone5wolf117 for selling it to me :) )

Your tooth looks beautiful as it is but I honestly don't know if your tooth is from an Afrovenator. But I can say one thing: It is WAY overpriced. I would stay away from it. 

Sorry but have to ask, how do you know that these teeth are what they claim.  Has any analysis been done on them checking for specific characteristics like serration density, location of mesial carina and CBR.  

If  paleontologist have a difficult time identifying these teeth how is it that collectors find it so easy?

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TyBoy

Sorry just trying to drive a point across

 

Key recommendations from Troodons post 

 

So let me recommend the following

1)  Purchase/Trade for quality teeth, the better the preservation the higher chance you have in getting an accurate ID.  Teeth missing a significant portion of serrations on one or both edges, or very worn herbivore teeth can be very difficult to properly diagnose.   Avoid buying: worn, cheap or incomplete teeth, save your money on better Q ones, exception being extremely rare teeth.

2)  Do not trust any identification you see on a tooth.  I don't care if its from a trusted dealer, a dealer you've done business with before, a friend, a member of this forum or any auction site.   You need to be the expert.

3)  Educated yourself as much as possible, read papers, books or informational topics on this forum.   Ask questions and post your interest here on the forum B4 you buy or trade.

5)  Additional characteristics may be required and that will be dependent on what you are buying.  These include serration density at the midline of both carinae, width and length of the base and how far the mesial carina extends to the base.  Again if someone is not willing to provide you this information just move on.

 

 

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paulyb135
7 minutes ago, TyBoy said:

 

Sorry but have to ask, how do you know that these teeth are what they claim.  Has any analysis been done on them checking for specific characteristics like serration density, location of mesial carina and CBR.  

If  paleontologist have a difficult time identifying these teeth how is it that collectors find it so easy?

 

This isn’t the first time an Afrovenator tooth topic has come up and it’s not the first time you have queried all of these even though there was strong evidence to prove the case that they are what they are being described as, Afrovenator :)

 

They were bought and analysed by a reputable dealer. Serrations counted and all.

 

if you have images of your own Afrovenator and can prove that mine and the tooth in question is not one I would love to see it. In fact it would be good if you could share your collection in the member collection page as I’m assuming you have a great collection based on your vast knowledge :)

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Runner64

Yea that Afro tooth has been up for a while now. Preservation looks off for Tiouraren and looks to be from Elrhaz formation but once again, color and preservation isn’t the best way to ID a fossil. Just gives a clue on the mineral content in the rocks which could be helpful.

 

The listing also doesn’t have strong provenance. Just because it says “Tiouraren Formation, Niger” is not good enough. Need an exact location in Niger, photos help, and seller also states the tooth was extracted 20 years ago....just think about how many hands this tooth may have touched, bound to be some miscommunicstion.

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TyBoy
1 hour ago, paulyb135 said:

 

This isn’t the first time an Afrovenator tooth topic has come up and it’s not the first time you have queried all of these even though there was strong evidence to prove the case that they are what they are being described as, Afrovenator :)

 

They were bought and analysed by a reputable dealer. Serrations counted and all.

 

if you have images of your own Afrovenator and can prove that mine and the tooth in question is not one I would love to see it. In fact it would be good if you could share your collection in the member collection page as I’m assuming you have a great collection based on your vast knowledge :)

You are missing the point.   Im not challenging the ID only asking members to do due diligence on what they are  buying and not make assumptions.  Serration Density is only one of the characteristics that need to be checked if you follow what Troodon posted.    I laugh when you say I purchased it from a reputable dealer.  My money says he's clueless in how to properly identify Theropod teeth.   I dont claim to be an expert I leave that to paleontologists not dealers.

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paulyb135
18 minutes ago, TyBoy said:

You are missing the point.   Im not challenging the ID only asking members to do due diligence on what they are  buying and not make assumptions.  Serration Density is only one of the characteristics that need to be checked if you follow what Troodon posted.    I laugh when you say I purchased it from a reputable dealer.  My money says he's clueless in how to properly identify Theropod teeth.   I dont claim to be an expert I leave that to paleontologists not dealers.

 

I wouldn’t have bought it if I had doubts as to what it was. If you look at my collection there are no grey areas in terms of species other than my Argentine tooth which again has been around the houses and you probably shared another paelentology paper for that too. 

 

I will continue to buy teeth based on the accurate info I am given :) 

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JohnJ

Let's please keep in mind that pricing and dealers are not the focus here.

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Paleoworld-101
19 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Let's please keep in mind that pricing and dealers are not the focus here.

Not on the forum you mean? Or in this topic category? 

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JohnJ
20 hours ago, Paleoworld-101 said:

Not on the forum you mean? 

:D Of course...off the forum is not my concern...but, not on any public TFF forum.

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Dinoguy89
17 hours ago, JohnJ said:

Let's please keep in mind that pricing and dealers are not the focus here.

But isn't it equally important to educate our fossil friends when a fossil is massively overpriced and not worth it. I understand why you do it but I think sometimes there should be exceptions, when I was a novice it was nice because I had someone tell me not to buy a tooth because it was way over priced, not knowing much back then I was going to buy without questioning it. Have a good day :)

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Anomotodon
On 2/11/2019 at 2:15 PM, Jaimin013 said:

Hi there, I don't believe this is an afrovenator tooth and I also know the site selling it and it is soo highly priced. I would say it is a nano tooth..but at the end of the day isolated teeth like this are hard to ID so it's an indeterminate tooth.

 

I also agree that the preservation is way off for Tiouaren formation, and is much closer to Erlhaz formation material (in that case it could be a Carcharodontosaurid). Highly unlikely that it is Hell Creek.

But morphological criteria are objectively more important than color and preservation. If it is Afrovenator, which is a Megalosaurid, then the mesial carina would end half way. You wouldn't see that feature on Carcharodontosaurid teeth (like Eocarcharia from Erlhaz). Unfortunately, seller doesn't show pictures of that side of the tooth. Serration density on each side, denticle shape and orientation, crown width/height ratio - all of these are important criteria in identifying a theropod tooth which you can easily check - I assume this is what @TyBoy is saying. I agree that the person who sold all of these Afrovenators is a reliable seller but it never hurts to verify it by yourself.

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