fossil_sea_urchin Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 The seller claims this is a 9 inch einosaurus metatarsal from the two medicine formation. He claims it is one of a kind and very rare. Is he right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It's highly unlikely that anyone could say that this was from an einiosaur unless it was found with a good portion of the skeleton that would almost have to include the head, or from the only known Einiosaurus bonebeds in MT from which all the known specimens, now housed at the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, reside. That would in turn imply that this bone was poached from the site, stolen from the collections, or otherwise separated from a skeleton. None of these scenarios is very likely. What is much more likely is that the seller really wants to sell this bone and will call it whatever he has to call it to get that done. Caveat emptor. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 My friend collected on a einiosaur bone bed in Montana and like Carl said its the only way you will be able to assign it to one. Ceratopsian material from the Two Medicine is quite rare. Troodon collection has some Einio material but states it came from a bonebed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 There are at least two Ceratopsians present in the Two Medicine formatio, Einiosaurus procurvicornis and Achelousaurus horneri. I don't know how to tell specific bones apart. Here is a drawning of a Centrosaurus foot. I know it's an other animal from a different location, but it might help to determine if this is indeed a Ceratopsian metatarsal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossil_sea_urchin Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 The seller claims it was found in a bone bed of 3 individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimin013 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 It is actually extremely difficult to say from this isolated fossil unfortunately...it could be one but you are not going to be able to establish an ID from this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Not meaning to be the sarcastic one here ( actually I am! ) but if it is "one of a kind", what could the seller possibly compare it to for an identification? Just saying! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves64 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, caldigger said: Not meaning to be the sarcastic one here ( actually I am! ) but if it is "one of a kind", what could the seller possibly compare it to for an identification? Just saying! Not to mention being found "in a bone bed of 3 individuals". But in a way I guess it IS one of a kind. That one is the only one of it's kind, being just that bone, with just that length, just that width, color & so on. It's completely unique... just like every other bone. You can be sarcastic. 2 Accomplishing the impossible means only that the boss will add it to your regular duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I suppose it could be completely unique in the sense that if this element has never been found before for an Einiosaurus it would be known as such by comparison with other more completely-known, closely-related ceratopsians, of which there are many. That said, it's almost certainly not true in this case. Too many red flags. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, Carl said: I suppose it could be completely unique in the sense that if this element has never been found before for an Einiosaurus In a circular sort of way it could make the claim harder to disprove. Mind you in this context circular equals useless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Einiosaurus bone beds are not uncommon in the Two Med Fm. Attached paper talks about them, one Canyon Bone Bed contained "approximately 300 bones and bone fragments but only two skulls, and represents a MNI of seven specimens of Einiosaurus (six subadults and one juvenile)". Guess none of those bones were Tarsals https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://scholarworks.montana.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1/2118/ReiznerJ0810.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1%26isAllowed%3Dy&ved=2ahUKEwieqIeryrvgAhUFG3wKHVkyAmEQFjARegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3QyhUj8fPxtnMquBDVS9BV&cshid=1550159619738 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, TyBoy said: Guess none of those bones were Tarsals 4 hours ago, Carl said: I suppose it could The sort of thing that discourages speculation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBchiefski Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Howdy, @fossil_sea_urchin if it did come from a bonebed with skull material present, then perhaps the bone could be narrowed down to Einiosaurus. Everything @Carl said is spot on and I can only add a little. Am fairly sure there is Einiosaurus metatarsal material at MOR, but can double check next time I am in collections. There is at least one undescribed ceratopsian in the Two Med so as already stated, IDs to the genus level require key skull material associated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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