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fossilsonwheels

Hell Creek vertebra ID help- maybe a theropd caudal vertebra ??

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fossilsonwheels

 When I first set out to collect Dinosaur fossils, a fossil dealer with a long history in the industry and from whom I had purchased shark fossils from had this listed for sale. It was sold as a Troodon formosus ( I am aware it is an invalid taxon). When I committed to purchasing this, i was unaware that only Troodontid teeth had been found in Hell Creek and I tended to believe dealer ID's. I do not regret the purchase. It is a great little bone to have in our education program and it was not expensive. We want to cover Troodontids in our education program which is why I bought this. It was cheaper than a tooth. It was also a good lesson to learn early on and without a significant financial investment. I do my homework know before purchasing a dinosaur fossil and if I have questions, I put it here.

 

It seems unlikely that that the dealer ID is correct just based on the lack of Troodontid bones that come from Hell Creek. I want to know we have and be accurate in what we present to kids so I have put some effort into figuring this out. It is a very small vertebra as you can see in the pictures. I did find some small theropod caudal vertebrae that look similar including a Troodontid. I have done some homework on this and tried to figure it out but I can not get much further on my own.  All I can say for sure is that is does not appear to be a fish or mammal and I do not think it is a crocodilian either.

 

Any thoughts or information would be helpful !!

20190216_134638-1.jpg

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Rockwood

The porous texture does seem right. I can't make the shape fit any of the museum or online photos I bring up though.

I think @Troodon might be around. Surely he would know.

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fossilsonwheels

I did not find anything that really perfectly matched it but I did find various scientific papers that showed similar looking caudal verts on theropods, to me at least though I am no expert. I do not think it is Dakotaraptor but I did include it anyway. I would love to see the opinions of @Troodon and others with far more knowledge than me.

Caudal-vertebrae-and-haemal-arches-of-Troodontidae-AeC-and-Dromaeosauridae-DeG-A.png.jpg

Detail-of-caudal-vertebrae-9e12-of-Buitreraptor-gonzalezorum-MPCN-PV-370-in-right.png

Preserved-caudal-vertebrae-of-the-Buitreraptor-gonzalezorum-in-right-lateral-view-A.png.jpg

The-tail-of-Dakotaraptor-PBMNHP10113T-A-top-the-ten-caudal-vertebrae-of.png.jpg

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Rockwood

It would seem that ossified tendon obscures the actual vert. in most presentations.

Or are those just long processes ?

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Troodon

I do not believe what you have is dinosaurian but reptlian and would lean toward croc. caudal.  Troodontid material other than teeth and the occasional claw is very rare and even more difficult to properly diagnose since there is so little comparative material around.

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fossilsonwheels
28 minutes ago, Troodon said:

I do not believe what you have is dinosaurian but reptlian and would lean toward croc. caudal.  Troodontid material other than teeth and the occasional claw is very rare and even more difficult to properly diagnose since there is so lityle comparative material around.

Bummer. Not dinosaurian is the last thing I wanted to read but I respect your knowledge. Unfortunately when I bought this I had not yet learned to confirm ID's by using the forum but at least I know what I have now. Thank you @Troodon for the help.

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