Judith River Dino Id Help

[fossilsonwheels]

All of these items are from the same dealer and I am looking for some ID help. I researched these as much as I could on my own but I can only get some far with the knowledge I have. All of these come from the Judith River formation. For our education programs to really be solid, we need to expand beyond just teeth. We do have an Edmontosaurus jaw fragment and will soon have some Ceratopsian frill pieces plus some bones fragments from the Morrison Formation. I think it would be a good idea to augment the small dromaeosaurid teeth we have a bone or two so I am trying to understand this part of dinosaur collecting better before I make a purchase. I do not want to repeat the error I made with the Troodon vert (which did have a happy ending as the dealer graciously agreed to exchange that for a frill piece). Any help on this is greatly appreciated.

 

The first one is listed as a the pedal phalanx from a Dromaeosaurus. I looked over as many photos as I could find of dromaeosaurid phalanx bones. It does look similar to several photos I found. I have a few questions on this one. Is this the phalanx of a dromaeosaurid dinosaur ?

Second question is more of a general question. Can you even determine a genus or species based on an isolated phalanx?

 

The second one is listed as a distal caudal vertebra of a Dromaeosaurus. This one was far more difficult to find anything to reference on the internet. I found nothing that could give me an insight as to whether or not this is a dromaeosaurid vertebra. Is this is from a dromaeosaurid dinosaur or any kind of theropod for that matter ? I have a pretty good idea now of what to ask dealers when it comes to theropod teeth but isolated bones are pretty new to me. Are there questions that I can ask of the dealer to further the ID process?

 

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide

 

 

 

[Troodon]

Most sellers equate size to species and I doubt few would know how to properly identify them.  I say that because isolated bones are very difficult to assign to a specific dinosaur possibly a family group.   I do not believe your phalanx belongs to Dromaeosaurus, possibly a oviraptorid or ornithomimosaur.  Included a photo of a foot of a Dromaeosaurus

 

Your distal caudal vert  belongs to an indeterminate Dromaeosaurid 

 

[gigantoraptor]

This is a picture of the distal caudal vertebrae from the Dromaeosaurid Buitreraptor gonzalezorum. I see some similarities.

[fossilsonwheels]

3 hours ago, Troodon said:

Most sellers equate size to species and I doubt few would know how to properly identify them.  I say that because isolated bones are very difficult to assign to a specific dinosaur possibly a family group.   I do not believe your phalanx belongs to Dromaeosaurus, possibly a oviraptorid or ornithomimosaur.  Included a photo of a foot of a Dromaeosaurus

 

Your distal caudal vert  belongs to an indeterminate Dromaeosaurid 

 

Thank you @Troodon . That is super helpful as always. We do not have any material from either oviraptorid or ornithomimosaur so that may not be a bad thing to pick up given it was not expensive but the vertebra is what we were looking for. Excellent stuff. The diagram and photo were quite informative.

[fossilsonwheels]

3 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

This is a picture of the distal caudal vertebrae from the Dromaeosaurid Buitreraptor gonzalezorum. I see some similarities.

Thank you very much @gigantoraptor. That is helpful. I feel pretty good about the vertebra between this and the information from @Troodon . I appreciate it !!

[Troodon]

I though this was interesting posted on Denver Fowler's Twitter .  A tibia from the JR Formation and the experts cannot assign it to a specific family.  Just goes to show you how difficult it is to ID isolated bones.  Analysis might  provide them an answer.  Of course dealers would be selling it with an identified species. . 

[fossilsonwheels]

On 2/22/2019 at 4:49 AM, Troodon said:

I though this was interesting posted on Denver Fowler's Twitter .  A tibia from the JR Formation and the experts cannot assign it to a specific family.  Just goes to show you how difficult it is to ID isolated bones.  Analysis might  provide them an answer.  Of course dealers would be selling it with an identified species. . 

I am learning that about a lot of dealers lol  That is a beautiful fossil regardless of what it belonged to.

 

 I plan on being very cautious with isolated bones going forward. I did contact the dealer about the Dromaeosaurid caudal vertebra to see if it was still available. I have not seen many bones that could be assigned to a Dromaeosaurid dinosaur so it seems a good pick up for the price.