Oxytropidoceras Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Below is an odd study that should amuse fossil collectors. Apostolou, M., 2011. Why men collect things? A case study of fossilised dinosaur eggs. Journal of Economic Psychology, 32(3), pp.410-417. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227419210_Why_men_collect_things_A_case_study_of_fossilised_dinosaur_eggs https://www.academia.edu/1005561/Why_men_collect_things_A_case_study_of_fossilised_dinosaur_eggs https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167487011000286 Yours, Paul H. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBchiefski Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Very interesting, not sure I agree with the main conclusions but certainly agree showing a person's "value" through a collection is likely an important factor, regardless if said person is just showing off or looking to impress a potential mate. I have noticed that as more and more young girls are encouraged to engage in science or that dinosaurs can be an interest for them as well, we see more women in paleontology and more women collecting fossils. Am sure I could find a stat to support this but for now, it is just personal observation. Paleontology and fossil collecting for a while were dominated by mainly men but I think that was just cultural. Using dino eggs to test their concepts means cultural bias could impart error. One of the best cases of women collecting is footwear, not all women of course but, many do have far more shoes than typically necessary. Quite the interesting subject either way, why do we enjoy collecting? Why are the majority of collectors men? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, CBchiefski said: Quite the interesting subject either way, why do we enjoy collecting? A question with many different answers! To draw from Thorstein Veblen's classic Theory of the Leisure Class, collecting would be classed as a species of conspicuous consumption. The function of this is to convey status, and the less utility the object has, the more status it conveys. He uses the example of silver versus steel spoons whereby the latter are the more durable and practical but do not carry the cachet of the former. In more classic psychoanalysis, collection is linked to an attempt to recover the fragmented self through objects. In Lacanian psychoanalysis, the act is linked to the "object of desire" / petit objet a that is unattainable no matter what we do, but pursue it we will. He sometimes represents this with the bracketed "phi" in a semiotic way, preceded by ellipses to indicate we can never satisfy that desire (in Derrida's reading, he equates the "attainment" with death, as identity and purpose is frequently determined by the negative, or what one does not have or what one is not). The urge to collect is never done, and even when one completes a set (say, for example, all the baseball cards in a series), in psychoanalysis it is said that one is left with a kind of disappointment on account of not having achieved the unity and completeness of the self one truly desired -- just these objects that are made to carry the burden of identity that they simply will not carry. 3 ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBchiefski Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Kane said: A question with many different answers! To draw from Thorstein Veblen's classic Theory of the Leisure Class, collecting would be classed as a species of conspicuous consumption. The function of this is to convey status, and the less utility the object has, the more status it conveys. He uses the example of silver versus steel spoons whereby the latter are the more durable and practical but do not carry the cachet of the former. In more classic psychoanalysis, collection is linked to an attempt to recover the fragmented self through objects. In Lacanian psychoanalysis, the act is linked to the "object of desire" / petit objet a that is unattainable no matter what we do, but pursue it we will. He sometimes represents this with the bracketed "phi" in a semiotic way, preceded by ellipses to indicate we can never satisfy that desire (in Derrida's reading, he equates the "attainment" with death, as identity and purpose is frequently determined by the negative, or what one does not have or what one is not). The urge to collect is never done, and even when one completes a set (say, for example, all the baseball cards in a series), in psychoanalysis it is said that one is left with a kind of disappointment on account of not having achieved the unity and completeness of the self one truly desired -- just these objects that are made to carry the burden of identity that they simply will not carry. Indeed, thanks for the answer and I dare say you quickly made more valid points than the paper's author haha. In recent times, it is also very interesting as we see the urge to collect extend beyond physical objects as well. Two examples I can think of are video game "gear" or cryptocurrencies, yes, both could potentially have debatable practical applications but many people, mainly men, seem to be collecting them in a similar fashion to the more traditional collected objects. Edited February 22, 2019 by CBchiefski Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 From a personal point of view..... My hobbies: Tropical fish, gardening and now fossils. Tropical fish : I don't have the common run of the mill stuff in my tank, but like rare and unusual "oddballs" My Garden : I like to have rare and unusual plants from different corners of the globe . Fossils : Am on the lookout for the more unusual fish and plants. So I guess something in me likes rare, exotic and unusual MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I guess I collect because I like to have around me things that fascinated me as a kid and captured my imagination. The other day I thought to myself "If my 12 year old self know what fossil treasures I would come to own, I'd ###### my pants". Lately I have been thinking of them as a sort of investment also (can't help it, given the expense that has gone into them), though the laws in this province seem to be going in the direction of "you can't sell fossils" and probably they (local ones at least) will mostly end up being donated to the museum for a tax receipt (ie. peanuts). Besides, I'll never attract a mate thru any of my nerdy hobbies! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranzBernhard Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, CBchiefski said: Am sure I could find a stat to support this but for now, it is just personal observation. Anecdotal evidence: There is only one (1) woman on www.mindat.org posting regularly (Minerals, total registered users there 43,000). Here on TFF, about 20-30 % of regular posters seem to be women (Staff may be able to give a more accurate number.) 1 hour ago, Yoda said: I guess something in me likes rare, exotic and unusual Very interesting! I am totally different: I like to collect the most usual, abundant, representative. Because many collections to not have them? Or to teach myself? However, also there is a twist to rarity: The most representative of a common species or association: "This Turritella plate is not got enough, I need a better one". "I need to have a more contrasting polished slab of a Vaccinites vesiculosus". And so on and so on... 3 hours ago, Kane said: The urge to collect is never done, and even when one completes a set (...), in psychoanalysis it is said that one is left with a kind of disappointment on account of not having achieved the unity and completeness of the self one truly desired. Oh yeah! But its fun, isn´t it? Franz Bernhard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Very interesting topics for me and I agree with all the members here. My own idea about collectioning or my own fossil collection is, I am not just trying to understand life though the filter of evolution it is also about me the collector and fulfilling an urge to be creative. I feel collectors are Artists because undoubtedly if your not storing your collections in boxes in the garage, your displaying it in some form on shelving , in cabinets or collectors draws. By doing this an level of understanding of aesthetics is used and the urge to be creative is scratched this can be proven by the simply feeling of a sense of accomplishment. Displaying objects is also creating something in the broadest view to be admired and pondered over . I feel the displaying of collections is a very pure form of an artist practice and not tied up by conventions. As Kane said “the urge to collect is never complete” I say it because the urge to be creative is never fully fulfilled, in fact a life’s work is to be had by arranging and rearranging the right objects on a shelve that are harmoniously pleasing to the eye and mind. I hope I made some sense it is hard for a dyslexic to write like this much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I doubt any two collector's specimens are the same, either, so there is some 'artistic' choice in what specimens you like, and how you prep them too (if you prep, which I'm sure we all do to some degree - basic trimming, etc). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, FranzBernhard said: Very interesting! I am totally different: I like to collect the most usual, abundant, representative. Because many collections to not have them? Or to teach myself? However, also there is a twist to rarity: The most representative of a common species or association: Of course the down side.......the rare stuff is usually a lot more expensive than the more common 1 MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 If collecting fossils has anything to do with mate selection, then why are so many members complaining about wives that are restricting further acquisitions? Do our wives think we are too attractive as it is and don't want to compete with other women for the guy with the biggest, most attractive, rarest fossils? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 My wife has her own collection of ammonites and more containers of make up than one can throw a stick at!!! RB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm sometimes reminded of the method of collection used by the Trobriander tribe of Papua, New Guinea. And it involves... yams, as a form of currency, symbolic exchange, and prestige: Each year, a man grows yams for his sister, and his daughter if she is married. The husband does not provide yams to his wife. The more yams a woman receives, the more powerful and rich she is. The husband is expected to give his wife's father or brother a gift in turn for the yams they give his wife. When the woman is first married, she receives yams from her father until the woman's brother thinks his sister and her husband are old enough for him to give the yams. At the beginning of the yam harvest, the yams stay on display in gardens for about a month before the gardener takes them to the owner. The owner is always a woman. There is a great ceremony for this every year. The yams are loaded into the woman's husband's empty yam house. Young people come to the gardens dressed in their most festive traditional clothes early on the day the yams are delivered to the yam house. The young people are all related to the gardener, and carry the yam baskets to the owner's hamlet. When they get to the owner's hamlet, they sing out to announce the arrival of the yams while thrusting out their hips in a sexually provocative motion. This emphasizes the relation between yams and sexuality. A few days later, the gardener comes and loads the yam house, and the man is now responsible for the yam. (Wikipedia) 1 ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBchiefski Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 All very solid points, suppose I personally am strange as I adore fossils but do not really collect them. Spent much of my childhood and years in high school finding shark teeth and other fossils however many of those I gave away to other kids. The handful of fossils in my apartment are not on display, instead, I have them locked in a drawer till I can find a good home for them. That said, I do have fossil related items above my desk such as a gift from peers in the field like an egg-shaped sign saying "You're Egg-stra Special" and the first cast I made along with a small 3d printed T. rex skull. In some ways, those could be considered my fossil collection. Quite an interesting tradition @Kane, reminds me of the yams used in parts of West Africa. 4 hours ago, Scylla said: If collecting fossils has anything to do with mate selection, then why are so many members complaining about wives that are restricting further acquisitions? Do our wives think we are too attractive as it is and don't want to compete with other women for the guy with the biggest, most attractive, rarest fossils? Haha thanks for the laugh, that was good! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Oxytropidoceras said: Below is an odd study that should amuse fossil collectors. Apostolou, M., 2011. Why men collect things? A case study of fossilised dinosaur eggs. Journal of Economic Psychology, 32(3), pp.410-417. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227419210_Why_men_collect_things_A_case_study_of_fossilised_dinosaur_eggs https://www.academia.edu/1005561/Why_men_collect_things_A_case_study_of_fossilised_dinosaur_eggs https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167487011000286 Yours, Paul H. I’ve been trying to find a way to get in the research gate app to read articles and I can’t. It wants me to be a member of a university which I no loner am.... is there a way to pay subscription to these article databases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranzBernhard Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 @Al Tahan, here it is. Franz Bernhard Why_men_collect_things_A_case_study_of_fossilised_.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heteromorph Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 ‘cuz i leik stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamptonsDoc Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 I think our resident psychologist would enjoy this: @snolly50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 @HamptonsDoc Yes, an interesting line of inquiry into a superficially puzzling phenomenon. I found the comments by our Forum members to be well reasoned and of interest to read. I am not claiming to be well-informed on this particular topic; but my bias leads me in this direction. I believe Humankind to possess natural (innate) acquisitiveness. It must be so, food, shelter, safety had to be claimed to insure survival. These are viewed as primary, unconditioned reinforcers by Behaviorists. These items/conditions were sought and even horded by our ancestors. "Putting aside" against the possibility of want is a genetic part of us. However, we are also subject to items/events taking on the property of a secondary, conditioned reinforcer. Given the complex capacity of our brain to store and relive thoughts and emotions; you end up with a critter who can acquire a tremendous variety and complexity of "likes" - things that attract and please. Of course the opposite is also true; we may also take on a host of conditioned responses that are negative, even dire. I have a friend who years ago was stricken with food poisoning, following ingesting a shrimp cocktail. To this day she cannot sit at the same table with someone eating shrimp. This is not simply an "I don't like" scenario, but a visceral, physiological response. There are thousands of examples of acquired reinforcing stimuli and a multitude of examples of stimuli that have acquired (via conditioning) punishing qualities. It is my suspicion that "collecting" is based on our innate yen to acquire; and its many forms and facets are informed by our individual life experiences. I hope this makes a little sense it was hastily thought out and scribbled. It's an interesting topic. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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