CharlotteG Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I recently purchased an old collection, init there was this piece determined as a pachypleurosaurus edwardi, trias, Monte San Georgis, Besano-Tesino, Italy. Is this a replica or the real thing? The fossil seems to be pasted on to some wood for stability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Unfortunately it indeed is a fake. Lots of these type of recreations are being sold on auction sites. Try returning it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 It's called Neusticosaurus edwardsii nowadays, Pachypleurosaurus is a nomen dubium. It looks like a replica to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Yes sadly it also looks a replica to me . If you have no luck sending it back, if you payed with paypal they can be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon.rocks Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 How do you know it's a replica or fake? Why go through the trouble of stabilizing the matrix on a replica? I am no expert, but can see restored parts and epoxy on matrix back side for stabilization, to conclude that it's a replica imho better pic are needed, would love to learn how you know that for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteG Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 It’s from a very old collection, it states that the fossil was traded for a fossil bat with Romano Guerra in 1978, apparently he still has a website. I’m going to try and contact him in the hope that he still remembers. I’ll also try to post some extra pictures soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Good point, probably overacted, fakes are a recent creation. Can you take a close-up photo of the specimen so we can take a better look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteG Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 Here are some more detailed pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 What's the size of this piece? The adult size of Neusticosaurus edwardsii was up to 120 cm. This piece seems to be a whole lot smaller, more like Neusticosaurus pusillus: (between 40 cm and 52 cm) or Neusticosaurus peyeri (between 45 cm and55 cm) or Neusticosaurus toeplitschi (between 30 and 40 cm). The new pictures make it look more real. I think I see teeth in the jaws. Could you do a vertebra count? The cervical vertebrae vary from species to species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon.rocks Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 1 minute ago, CharlotteG said: It’s from a very old collection, it states that the fossil was traded for a fossil bat with Romano Guerra in 1978, apparently he still has a website. I’m going to try and contact him in the hope that he still remembers. I’ll also try to post some extra pictures soon I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be real with some restored parts (also on matrix), looks real to me from these pics. Back side is strengthened with some sort of epoxy, prep work is not best, but can see it was puzzled together, preped with engraver or scribes or with dental picks and you can see glue leftovers and where matrix pieces, missing, were reconstructed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I feel I should apologise for rushing into a judgment. After @aeon.rocks pointed some things out I think I am wrong. A lesson learnt for me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele 1937 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 It is original. I know this material. Pasted but original. Very old piece. Mich 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilshale Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Real, may be some paint, but that's all. 1 Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 This has too much nuanced details to be fake imo. The closeups also look more real than replica. So yeah I vote real as well. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteG Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 23 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: What's the size of this piece? The adult size of Neusticosaurus edwardsii was up to 120 cm. This piece seems to be a whole lot smaller, more like Neusticosaurus pusillus: (between 40 cm and 52 cm) or Neusticosaurus peyeri (between 45 cm and55 cm) or Neusticosaurus toeplitschi (between 30 and 40 cm). The new pictures make it look more real. I think I see teeth in the jaws. Could you do a vertebra count? The cervical vertebrae vary from species to species. It has about 74 verts and measures about 27 cm. Hope this helps, I am now considering keeping it so a correct determination would be great ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeon.rocks Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Could display a lot nicer imo, if you have it pro-reprepped (only needs a bit of careful outlining and some aesthetic work on matrix). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Real, and lovely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantoraptor Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 On 24/2/2019 at 11:33 AM, CharlotteG said: It has about 74 verts and measures about 27 cm. Hope this helps, I am now considering keeping it so a correct determination would be great ^^ From the number of vertebrae you counted I think it's N. peyeri. N. pusillus has a far bigger number of vertebrae (around 100) while N. peyeri has around 77. If you only consider the number of vertebrae it also could be N. toeplitschi but that species is only described in the eastern alps, not in Monte San Giorgio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, gigantoraptor said: From the number of vertebrae you counted I think it's N. peyeri. N. pusillus has a far bigger number of vertebrae (around 100) while N. peyeri has around 77. If you only consider the number of vertebrae it also could be N. toeplitschi but that species is only described in the eastern alps, not in Monte San Giorgio. Yup, that's true: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326834935_The_marine_reptile_Neusticosaurus_from_the_Eastern_Alps Most parts original IMO, but very bad prep-job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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