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Still_human

Hi everyone, Im looking at a bunch of stuff that someone got from the big fossil expo this month, but I want to be sure of what is what before I do anything. There's a few things way beyond what I could potentially get, but I'm just curious about in general. These are all Moroccan, and most, if not all, are Kem Kem.

 

are these first 4 pics spinosaur? With the teeth I know the 2 on the top&left are probably carchar teeth, but I'm wondering about the other 2.

In the 2nd picture, I'm guessing the right one is a spinosaur vert, right? What about the other one?

I'm sure it would probably be very hard to tell with just a single rib, but could the rib be spinosaurus? It seems to match some museum spino skeleton ribs, but that's the best I can figure out:/

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Still_human

Can anyone ID either of these? Pictures 1&2 are the same thing, and 3,4&5 are the same thing. Is picture 1&2 part of a jaw? From one angle(picture 5), the second fossil reminds me of a vertebra structure, but then seeing the other angles makes me think it can't be part of a vertebra.

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Still_human

What on earth are these??? The look exactly like fish fins, but I would be amazed if fins ever fossilized so perfectly separated like that! Could they actually BE fins???

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Still_human

Can anyone ID this croc? It looks way too thick and robust to me, to be the usual dyrosaurus.

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Still_human

These seem HUUUUUUGE to me, are they as unusually large as I think they are? 

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Still_human

The bottom one is apparently a croc jaw, can anyone tell what it is by the angle/thickness? 

And im very sure the large jaw is basilosaurus, but the smaller of the 2 seems to have a little different shape(widthXlength), so is it something else(from what you can see), or could the proportions just be a little smaller because it's a smaller animal? I know the missing rear portion gives it a stubbier look, but I think the space between the teeth are smaller, relatively.

 

*clearly these are just curiosities to me, depressingly, i could never, Never, NEVER afford something like these!!!!

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gigantoraptor
12 hours ago, Still_human said:

 

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I think these are restored Carcharodontosaurid and Spinosaurid teeth.

 

 

 

 

 

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Still_human
14 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

I think these are restored Carcharodontosaurid and Spinosaurid teeth.

 

 

 

 

 

When you say "restored", are you referring to small elements, or as in significant portions? The base of the smaller spinosaur tooth looks like it has a small patch/fill, and the larger one has stripes/rings around the tip, but i don't know what that might be, but are you referring more than things like that? If there's more, what should I be looking for?

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Still_human
14 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

These are Mawsonia lavocati skull elements.

Mawsonia sp.jpg

 

 

 

 

Neither of these look like Basilosaurus. Basilosaurus can be found in Egypt and Alabama, but is not described in Morocco (I think). These look like  a species related to Pappocetus or an other early whale (there are quite a few).

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor pappocetus

Pappocetus lugardi 

 

We need more pictures and a location for the smaller jaw.

 

Location on this one? 

Awesome, thanks! I very much appreciate your help!

 

The croc jaw is apparently Kem Kem.

Im no expert, but I have to admit that the large jaw definitely looks like many Basilosaur jaws that I've seen, right down to placement and number of teeth/types. It turns out the smaller one is actually upside-down, and is part of the skull, back to the eyes. I'll post pics when i get them. Im not as familiar with the top part of basilosaurs jaws, cause I don't know if I've ever seen any like this, with just the snout, missing the head part, so it looks very strange to me. Still amazing, but that much more of a mystery to me! 

 

Theres actually another "basilosaurus" jaw fragment that has puzzled me, and then the seller when I pointed out some oddities, and apparently a couple "experts" they had contacted about it, which I'll have to post on here--it made me do a lot of visual research on the earlier Cetus lineage. I'll have to locate the pictures and information, and post it for you, and everyone to take a look.

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Still_human

This has me 100% stumped. The only thoughts I have on it at ALL, is that the 3rd picture sort of makes me THINK of the underside of the back of a skull, where the spinal chord meets it, but I don't think Ive ever seen any that actually look like that. The first 2 pictures look like total randomness to me, though.

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gigantoraptor
11 hours ago, Still_human said:

The croc jaw is apparently Kem Kem.

Is this about the one in the same picture as the whale jaws? If it's about the other one then it's definitly not Dyrosaurus since that species is Eocene and not Cenomanian like the Kem Kem beds.

 

About the whale jaws. The pictures aren't exactly good enough to see much detail. I enlarged the picture but still couldn't determine if it the posterior teeth look like this:

image.png.c2180947d7374c4cbd56f549785eb49f.png

or rather like this: 

image.png.c8295676daf6eb639dbb679d97915f37.png

If they look like the first then it's not a  genus within the Basilosaurinae.

 

Basilosaurus isis can be found in Dakhla (Western Sahara), but it also could be the Basilosaurid  Eocetus schweinfurthi and the Basilosaurid Platyosphys sp. have similar teeth. So how could you be so sure they are Basilosaurus? If they look like the first one it could be Pappocetus sp. .

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Still_human
6 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:
18 hours ago, Still_human said:

The croc jaw is apparently Kem Kem.

Is this about the one in the same picture as the whale jaws? If it's about the other one then it's definitly not Dyrosaurus since that species is Eocene and not Cenomanian like the Kem Kem beds.

No, about the picture of just the large lower jaw.

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Still_human
6 hours ago, gigantoraptor said:

Is this about the one in the same picture as the whale jaws? If it's about the other one then it's definitly not Dyrosaurus since that species is Eocene and not Cenomanian like the Kem Kem beds.

 

About the whale jaws. The pictures aren't exactly good enough to see much detail. I enlarged the picture but still couldn't determine if it the posterior teeth look like this:

image.png.c2180947d7374c4cbd56f549785eb49f.png

or rather like this: 

image.png.c8295676daf6eb639dbb679d97915f37.png

If they look like the first then it's not a  genus within the Basilosaurinae.

 

Basilosaurus isis can be found in Dakhla (Western Sahara), but it also could be the Basilosaurid  Eocetus schweinfurthi and the Basilosaurid Platyosphys sp. have similar teeth. So how could you be so sure they are Basilosaurus? If they look like the first one it could be Pappocetus sp. .

I'm sorry, I don't know exactly where the basilosaur jaws are from, I'll have to ask--it was the rest that were apparently Kem Kem.

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Still_human
Just now, Still_human said:

About the whale jaws. The pictures aren't exactly good enough to see much detail. I enlarged the picture but still couldn't determine if it the posterior teeth look like this:

The teeth look like worn down basilosaurus teeth. They have the cusps, but they're far from being ideal condition to see perfectly

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Still_human

This is the smaller of the 2 "basilosaur" jaws, which were actually upside-down and are part of the actual skull, instead of the lower jaw. The teeth definitely don't look like basilosaurus.

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gigantoraptor

Those teeth don't exactly look like Basilosaurid teeth to me. I think these are rather from Pappocetus or an other Protocetid.

image.png.57f9b25d18d6445899d51a902b865e70.png

 

 

This is what Basilosaurid teeth look like: 

Basilosaurus Tooth or Molar

 

And this is what Protocetid teeth look like:

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor pappocetus tooth

The ones in your pictures look more like the last.

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Still_human said:

No, about the picture of just the large lower jaw.

If I see the size of this jaw then it must be a partial lower jaw of Elosuchus cherifiensis. It's the only Crocodyliform from this area that became this big.

 

On 26-2-2019 at 4:02 AM, Still_human said:

When you say "restored", are you referring to small elements, or as in significant portions? The base of the smaller spinosaur tooth looks like it has a small patch/fill, and the larger one has stripes/rings around the tip, but i don't know what that might be, but are you referring more than things like that? If there's more, what should I be looking for?

We would need beter pictures if you want to be sure but here is what I think:

Top one: I enlarged the picture and a lot of the root seems to have a sandstone structure. Might be because of the bad quality of the enlargment so not sure

Second: That dent looks suspicous, also I don't see any sign of serrations and the mesial carina is not smooth like it normally has to be.

Third: Composite with a lot of filling and maybe the tip from another tooth.

Bottom one: Need more pictures but suspect it will be a fake root.

 

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You also mentioned 'The Cetus lineage'. What exactly is that?

 

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Still_human
On 2/27/2019 at 9:03 AM, gigantoraptor said:

If I see the size of this jaw then it must be a partial lower jaw of Elosuchus cherifiensis. It's the only Crocodyliform from this area that became this big.

Awesome, thanks very much:)

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Still_human
On 2/27/2019 at 9:03 AM, gigantoraptor said:

Those teeth don't exactly look like Basilosaurid teeth to me. I think these are rather from Pappocetus or an other Protocetid.

Thanks so much! You're right, it definitely didn't look basilosaurid. I'll have to look it up and see what protocetids are from that area. I know most of the earliest ones are from the India/pakistan area, but obviously at some point they made their way over to Africa.

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Still_human
On 2/27/2019 at 9:03 AM, gigantoraptor said:

You also mentioned 'The Cetus lineage'. What exactly is that?

I'm sorry, that may have been totally incorrect, I thought it would work to generally group together the whales of the family that ended in cetus(pappocetus, protocetus, rodhocetus, eocetus, georgiacetus, etc.)

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Still_human

Here's some more pictures of "the thing"

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Still_human
On 2/27/2019 at 9:03 AM, gigantoraptor said:

We would need beter pictures if you want to be sure but here is what I think:

Top one: I enlarged the picture and a lot of the root seems to have a sandstone structure. Might be because of the bad quality of the enlargment so not sure

Second: That dent looks suspicous, also I don't see any sign of serrations and the mesial carina is not smooth like it normally has to be.

Third: Composite with a lot of filling and maybe the tip from another tooth.

Bottom one: Need more pictures but suspect it will be a fake root.

Wow, thanks for the pointers!

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Still_human
On 2/27/2019 at 9:03 AM, gigantoraptor said:

Those teeth don't exactly look like Basilosaurid teeth to me. I think these are rather from Pappocetus or an other Protocetid.

I figured it out, I believe. It's a Maiacetus! 

 

The one thing that kept me from IDing it at first was this little sub-group of teeth in the back which I hadn't noticed in this piece before, but then I checked again and sure enough, the one thing that i thought was a problem, ended up being what cinched it for me. It's the only Cetus I can find with that thicker front part of the jaw, and also with the right shape and sized nostril notch on the top, and now with not only the right shaped and positioned teeth, but also that unique strange protrusion from the rear upper jaw with the 3 clumped teeth, following the very close, and also protruded single tooth(the back end with the 3rd tooth seems to be missing on this one, sadly)...Does anyone see anything Ive overlooked, or mistaken about? Of course there could be a species I haven't come across, but barring that, I think it matches very well to the Maiacetus.

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LordTrilobite
On 2/25/2019 at 1:36 AM, Still_human said:

Hi everyone, Im looking at a bunch of stuff that someone got from the big fossil expo this month, but I want to be sure of what is what before I do anything. There's a few things way beyond what I could potentially get, but I'm just curious about in general. These are all Moroccan, and most, if not all, are Kem Kem.

 

are these first 4 pics spinosaur? With the teeth I know the 2 on the top&left are probably carchar teeth, but I'm wondering about the other 2.

In the 2nd picture, I'm guessing the right one is a spinosaur vert, right? What about the other one?

I'm sure it would probably be very hard to tell with just a single rib, but could the rib be spinosaurus? It seems to match some museum spino skeleton ribs, but that's the best I can figure out:/

IMG_9300.PNGIMG_9306.PNGIMG_9304.PNGIMG_9305.PNG

The rib looks pretty cool. But all those teeth and the two vertebrae look like they've been tampered with. I think most of these are composites. I would pass on the teeth and vertebrae.

 

On 2/25/2019 at 1:40 AM, Still_human said:

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This is the underside of a vertebra centrum. Not very complete but pretty cool. It looks like it might be a Spinosaurid cervical vertebra. But it's hard to tell since it's so incomplete.

On 2/25/2019 at 1:43 AM, Still_human said:

Can anyone ID this croc? It looks way too thick and robust to me, to be the usual dyrosaurus.

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If that's Kem Kem then it's very likely the lower jaw of Elosuchus. Looks good.

On 2/26/2019 at 4:28 AM, Still_human said:

This has me 100% stumped. The only thoughts I have on it at ALL, is that the 3rd picture sort of makes me THINK of the underside of the back of a skull, where the spinal chord meets it, but I don't think Ive ever seen any that actually look like that. The first 2 pictures look like total randomness to me, though.

IMG_9330.PNGIMG_9331.PNGIMG_9332.PNG

Indeed hard to tell. It seems like there's been some "repair" and these photos, even the newer ones are simply not good enough to tell what has been done with the piece. Some of the photos do look a little like the base of the skull, but the others do look quite random. Without better photos I would pass on this one as well.

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