Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Hey everyone, I just started playing with this stuff called Q-O that I got from a friend on the forum. I don’t remember the exact specifics but it breaks down shale around fossils like brachs and corals really well. It doesn’t break down calcium carbonate so the fossils stay intact. I have a lot of Spinocyrtia granulosa specimens I’ve collected with some having amazing potential but still semi shale covered. The same went for my Pleurodictyums, Mediospirifers and many corals. All of these are from the Lake Erie shoreline. Patience seems to be my biggest issue cause it does take time to clean. So I took to the stove top to speed up the process. My gas bill will reflect my efforts This is one of my best..fully inflated, very 3D. I only have one other this 3D. These next 2 had a ton of extra fossils hidden!! I actually need too try and ID them. There is some type of branching bryozoan I think. I also see a more familiar encrusting bryozoan as well. I think the 2ns photo has aulopora all over the back of the brach. More to come! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darktooth Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I like Trilo-butts and I cannot lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 I was really excited that my Pleurodictyums turned out so well!!! This is my Favosites colony I found in the lower Windom Shale on the Lake Erie shore line. This came from the layer where you can find the large coral Heliophyllum hali. I’ve NEVER seen another complete colony although I’m sure they are around. I can easily say this is extremely rare....trust me I’ve looked really hard ever since I found this one....nothing. I know they can get much larger in the Tichenor Limestone. It would normally be circular but it was on its side and partially crushed from compaction. It’s amazing specimen....I was able to clear some shale and make it pop more but I really need to let this soak to get the best results. I cleaned a few corals including some of my Heliophyllums bit I only took pics of these few. They cleaned up nice. only a few more pics I promise lol. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 This will probably be my most flawless Spinocyrtia once I can get the last bit of concretionary shale off this. The last little bit on here won’t melt away in the Q-O...it’s too rich in calcium carbonate to break down. It may need some encouraging from an air abrasive. When I said this was a 3D brach I wasn’t kidding. This pictures don’t do justice this is a ROBUST inflated example. These are almost always flattened in some way. I cleaned up a bunch of Mediospirifers and Mucrospirifers...some really cleaned up nice!!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 These are the last 3 photos.....just eye candy!!! Thats all...winter has got me all sorts of bored so fossil projects pass the time. My fiancé told me I have to wait a long time till I do this again. I could have cleaned some up a little more but she kinda had to draw the line lol. I literally had the stove on for 2 days haha. I may soak some specimens and set it aside for a couple months...it will be agony waiting but I’ll live Thanks for reading! Al 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Nice Hederella filiformis on that brachiopod, Al! 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 So this Q-O solution obviously works better hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, caldigger said: So this Q-O solution obviously works better hot? Yea pretty much!.....the boiling action kinda acted to remove shale quicker. The turbulence was kinda like a gentle exfoliant in a sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Fossildude19 said: Nice Hederella filiformis on that brachiopod, Al! Thanks for the ID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Thanks for sharing your results. If you're in more of a hurry, then you could try working with caustic potash platelets. They are lain on the fossil in a bowl and then slightly moistened. As with all chemicals, of course, you must take the necessary precautions. 1 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranzBernhard Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 20 minutes ago, Ludwigia said: caustic potash platelets As Ludwigia said, this is really, really dangerous stuff! Eye protection is a must, proper gloves etc. necessary. Ah, just place one of these platelets on a piece of (dead) meat and watch, what happens... Franz Bernhard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilshale Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Q-O, Quaternary O or Rock Quat is the trivial name for Rewoquat W 3690, which is only distributed in Germany (not 100% sure). A similar formula is available in the USA, Varisoft 3690 PG. Rewoquat W 3690 (or Varisoft 3690) does not dissolve marl, but softens it so that it crumbles. Calcium carbonate is not affected. Rewoquat is a cationic surfactant or more precisely, a fabric softener, and relatively safe to handle (compared to caustic soda). But it contains solvents (iso-propanol) and should be used carefully like all chemicals (read the MSDS!). I've never used it - so, sorry, I can't give you any tips. (There are different Rewoquat and Varisoft grades - only Rewoquat or Varisoft 3690 will work). Thomas 6 Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediospirifer Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I see what looks like a few Cornulites next to that Hederella. I don't offhand know what the crust on the other side is. Probably bryozoan. Nice fossils! They all cleaned up very nicely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Very useful stuff and lovely specimens. Unfortunately, neither Rewoquat or Varisoft seem to be available in the UK, I wonder if there's an alternative? I've used potassium hydroxide flakes quite a lot but, safety issues aside (which are easily surmountable), I've found it hard to avoid discolouration once the specimen is dry. That's despite thorough soaking afterwards, sometimes with a touch of acetic acid (not enough to visibly affect the calcite of course). 1 Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilshale Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, TqB said: Very useful stuff and lovely specimens. Unfortunately, neither Rewoquat or Varisoft seem to be available in the UK, I wonder if there's an alternative? I've used potassium hydroxide flakes quite a lot but, safety issues aside (which are easily surmountable), I've found it hard to avoid discolouration once the specimen is dry. That's despite thorough soaking afterwards, sometimes with a touch of acetic acid (not enough to visibly affect the calcite of course). There is an online shop in Germany (Krantz) where you could buy it (I don't know if they still can send it to the UK after the brexit. It's a chemical - might be difficult): https://www.krantz-online.de/en/online_shop/products.html You can get it also from Haufwerk.com for less money (but they don't seem to have a website in English). Interesting shop for prep tools and equipment btw. https://www.haufwerk.com/de/rewoquat-w-3690-pg-1-liter.html?switch_country=GB Rewoquat is from Evonik Industries AG - you might as well ask for a (free) sample. And here is a pdf: An acid-free method of microfossil extraction from clay-rich lithologies using the surfactant Rewoquat Jarochowskaetal.2013Rewoquat.pdf Thomas 3 Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, oilshale said: There is an online shop in Germany (Krantz) where you could buy it (I don't know if they still can send it to the UK after the brexit. It's a chemical - might be difficult): https://www.krantz-online.de/en/online_shop/products.html You can get it also from Haufwerk.com for less money (but they don't seem to have a website in English). Interesting shop for prep tools and equipment btw. https://www.haufwerk.com/de/rewoquat-w-3690-pg-1-liter.html?switch_country=GB Rewoquat is from Evonik Industries AG - you might as well ask for a (free) sample. And here is a pdf: An acid-free method of microfossil extraction from clay-rich lithologies using the surfactant Rewoquat Jarochowskaetal.2013Rewoquat.pdf Thomas Thanks, Thomas, I'd better lay in a supply before we're cut off from civilisation! Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Nice results, Al. Of course, nothing says you can't air abrade what's left. The Q-O does do a lot of the heavy lifting, and then the rest you can blast off. ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilshale Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 39 minutes ago, TqB said: Thanks, Thomas, I'd better lay in a supply before we're cut off from civilisation! Well, certainly not from civilization. I think it is a pity that the UK is leaving the EC, but there has been a vote and the majority has decided so. I just hope it was the right decision. Thomas Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes (Confucius, 551 BC - 479 BC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 If we can get a chemical name I might be able to get or make it @TqB 2 John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TqB Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnBrewer said: If we can get a chemical name I might be able to get or make it @TqB From the paper that Thomas (Oilshale) linked: "Rewoquat W 3690 PG is a trade name for a concentrate of 75% cationic surfactant 1-methyl-2- oleyl-3-oleyl-amidoethyl-imidazolium methosulfate with 24% propylenglycol." My organic chemistry has rusted away altogether but that sounds a bit involved! 1 Tarquin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 My head is hurting...... John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 @oilshale I can’t find exactly the chemical and therefore the price on the website. from the little island in the mid Atlantic soon John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 @FranzBernhard @Ludwigia Wow!!! Heck I’d be interesting in trying it out lol. Where do you get this very caustic substance? I’ll try anything once lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Kane said: Nice results, Al. Of course, nothing says you can't air abrade what's left. The Q-O does do a lot of the heavy lifting, and then the rest you can blast off. Thanks Kane! I do plan on some finishing touches with the air abrade...hopefully I’ll have my lab made by the end of the year. I got big plans for my new house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 @TqB @oilshale thanks for the information!! You knew way more than I did haha. I didn’t even know what Q-O stood for lol. Very much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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