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Randomguy1

Byrozoan of some sort?

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Randomguy1

Only found one like this in my area, know what it might be? Thanks a lot! (Sorry inches is all I have measurement wise)

 

Scale.JPG

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ynot

Please set the item on a solid surface and take pictures from straight on of all sides and ends. And add a scale (ruler prefered).

It will help to do this with any object submitted for ID.

Thank You.

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Randomguy1

Heres some better pics:

cool.JPG

Coo.JPG

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Randomguy1

yeah! Sure! just a sec!

 

 

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MrBones

Looks like a crinoid stem with something else on it, you can see the seperated discs on the bottom of the 2nd picture.

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MrBones

Studio_20190228_220728.thumb.png.39442bd9d0e1caa955a6b2f1c0e7f3f4.png

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Bullsnake

I believe it is a crinoid column with sponge borings.

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KCMOfossil

+1 for crinoid column

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Randomguy1

I thought it looked like a crinoid stem, just have never seen the curious looking holes. Thanks guys ;)

 

Just now, KCMOfossil said:

+1 for crinoid column

 

2 minutes ago, Bullsnake said:

I believe it is a crinoid column with sponge borings.

 

5 minutes ago, MrBones said:

Looks like a crinoid stem with something else on it, you can see the seperated discs on the bottom of the 2nd picture.

 

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KCMOfossil

I've seen similar holes on crinoid stems I've collected from the area, and I thought they we some type of predation/borings.  @Bullsnake says sponge borings, and that fits with the pictures when googled.  I always find evidence of species interaction fascinating.  

 

Russ

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Herb

I agree with Bullsnake

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Randomguy1
23 hours ago, abyssunder said:

It looks like a crinoid pluricolumnal with nice trace fossils similar to Tremichnus. :)

reference here

 

Coo.JPG.2641fdb4f9802010f403c71e4250c802.thumb.JPG.4cb2fb679175bda88881d2bacfacc375.JPGCG1517.thumb.jpg.536f4864ec1d033d2b743216568721d6.jpg

 

 

Very Cool! Thanks!

 

 

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abyssunder
3 minutes ago, Randomguy1 said:

Very Cool! Thanks!

You are welcome! :)

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ClearLake

Very interesting.  There is no doubt it is a section of crinoid stem, but I'm not convinced on the sponge borings.  The attached examples show sponge borings to be more like simple holes although the article linked by @abyssunder  does talk about some swelling around the borings.  What is on this crinoid appears to be a build-up of some sort.  Could it be an encrusting bryozoan or more likely coral (given the size of the apertures/holes) but abraided?  What age is this?  It doesn't look to me from the original picture that the stem is swollen, but rather is covered, but maybe that is just me mis-interpreting the picture given it is slightly blurry (at least to my eyes).  Thanks

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Randomguy1
Just now, ClearLake said:

Very interesting.  There is no doubt it is a section of crinoid stem, but I'm not convinced on the sponge borings.  The attached examples show sponge borings to be more like simple holes although the article linked by @abyssunder  does talk about some swelling around the borings.  What is on this crinoid appears to be a build-up of some sort.  Could it be an encrusting bryozoan or more likely coral (given the size of the apertures/holes) but abraided?  What age is this?  It doesn't look to me from the original picture that the stem is swollen, but rather is covered, but maybe that is just me mis-interpreting the picture given it is slightly blurry (at least to my eyes).  Thanks

It's from a Pennsylvanian deposit.

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abyssunder

I think, better close-up images are needed for a better understanding of what might be there. The bryozoan idea might be good if the first picture's sticking-out feature may resemble holdfast(s).

 

Scale.JPG.78046abcd31744a5886e91c7bc65d822.thumb.JPG.c04daf2f796fd3e70e9ea93682ab9feb.JPG

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abyssunder

" Small round pits and holes in fossil skeletal material are found in a wide variety of invertebrate substrates from diverse environmental settings. They are associated with parasitism, predation and commensal attachment. Four ichnogenera have been proposed for these trace fossils: Sedilichnus Müller, Oichnus Bromley, Tremichnus Brett and Fossichnus Nielsen, Nielsen and Bromley. Previous authors have established that Tremichnus is a junior synonym of Oichnus . Herein we show that Oichnus and Fossichnus are junior synonyms of Sedilichnus . Sedilichnus , as defined herein, includes 10 ichnospecies. Sedilichnus spongiophilus, S. simplex, S. paraboloides, S. ovalis, S. coronatus, S. gradatus, S. halo, S. asperus, S. excavatus and S. solus . Consistent with previous work Sedilichnus ichnospecies are defined solely by morphological criteria and not by a priori assumptions regarding depositional environment or tracemaker. Thus, this ichnotaxon is recognized in both marine and continental settings on a wide variety of invertebrate skeletal tests. As is true with many ichnotaxa, Sedilichnus ichnospecies represent end-members in morphological spectra, however each ichnospecies is clearly differentiable from the others. Sedilichnus spongiophilus are circular, non-penetrative pits in shells. Sedilichnus paraboloides are penetrative holes with spherical paraboloid forms and typically have larger external openings and smaller internal openings. Sedilichnus simplex are simple cylindrical borings that have both penetrative and non-penetrative forms. Sedilichnus coronatus differ from other forms by the presence of an etched or granular halo surrounding the boring. Sedilichnus gradatus have two concentric parts, an outer boring and an inner shelf of smaller diameter. Sedilichnus ovalis and S. asperus are both oval in outline differing in the presence of tapering paraboloid margins in S. ovalis and margins perpendicular to the substrate in S. asperus . Sedilichnus excavatus and S. solus are primarily non-penetrative and differ from other Sedilichnus by the presence of central, raised bosses or platforms. These two ichnospecies differ in the shapes of their external walls and the proportional thickness of the bounding groove. " - J.P. Zonneveld & M.K. Gingras. 2014. Sedilichnus, Oichnus, Fossichnus, and Tremichnus: ‘small round holes in shells’ revisited.
Journal of Paleontology, 88(5): 895-905

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erose
24 minutes ago, abyssunder said:

" Small round pits and holes in fossil skeletal material are found in a wide variety of invertebrate substrates from diverse environmental settings. They are associated with parasitism, predation and commensal attachment. Four ichnogenera have been proposed for these trace fossils: Sedilichnus Müller, Oichnus Bromley, Tremichnus Brett and Fossichnus Nielsen, Nielsen and Bromley. Previous authors have established that Tremichnus is a junior synonym of Oichnus . Herein we show that Oichnus and Fossichnus are junior synonyms of Sedilichnus . Sedilichnus , as defined herein, includes 10 ichnospecies........ " - J.P. Zonneveld & M.K. Gingras. 2014. Sedilichnus, Oichnus, Fossichnus, and Tremichnus: ‘small round holes in shells’ revisited.
Journal of Paleontology, 88(5): 895-905

Okay. Another paper I must have. Tell me do they even mention Myzostomites? I found that ichno genera listed in the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology Part W (supplement). 

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abyssunder
46 minutes ago, erose said:

Tell me do they even mention Myzostomites? I found that ichno genera listed in the Treatise on Invertebrate Paleontology Part W (supplement). 

Myzostomites was treated in C. Brett .1985. Tremichnus: A New Ichnogenus of Circular-Parabolic Pits in Fossil Echinoderms. Journal of Paleontology 59(3): 625-635.

 

It is interesting that Donovan & Pickerill, in 2016, suggested the invalidity of Tremichnus Brett.  link

 

Unfortunately, all of the published documents in this thema are not freely available. :(

 


 

 

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