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Is this a fossil or a mineral?

muv

By muv
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muv Newbie

muv

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My daughter found this on the banks of river Thames (London, UK) several years ago. It's 36 mm long. 

Can this be a part of a once-living thing or just a geological mineral? We are complete amateurs in Palaeontology, but have always hoped it's a tooth or a claw. 

 

Thanks

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muv Newbie

muv

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Many thanks both. A bit of a disappointment for my daughter, but still very interesting. 

Just out of curiosity: how old can it possibly be? Up to 100 years? 1000? It feels on touch like a piece of polished stone - but maybe this is how a tooth should feel?

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Rockwood Regular Member

Rockwood

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The remnant of cementum on the root would tend to indicate an age less than one hundred years. I would think there is always a chance that the river has claimed sediments which preserved it for several thousand years though.

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Pemphix Regular Member

Pemphix

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The tooth would be very small for a horse with 36mm (but i'm not an expert on mammals though).

Since the uppermost part of the strata of London consist mostly of tertiary and quartenary sediments, you may expect fossils from this period including remains like the discussed piece.

On the other hand, like already said some signs of the piece indicates that the piece is not very old (in geological means), some hundred years maybe if ever.

How they came in the river ? It was not unusual that remains (from butcher or so) of them were putted in the river to get rid of them in former times..and there were a lot of battles during the last hundred of years, too. So there were a lot of possibilitys how the piece came into the river..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geology_of_London

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muv Newbie

muv

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I guess it could be a young horse, or maybe a donkey?

 

The tooth was found on the beach in Greenwich where a couple of years later a huge number of bones came from the silt to the surface. The most credible explanation I found online at the time was that these were discarded from the kitchens of Henri VIII's Greenwich Palace which stood at that place before it was demolished in 1660 for rebuilding (which was never completed). So I think we'll take this as the primary theory for the source of our tooth.

 

I understand that in any case this has little to do with fossils. Thanks a lot for shedding some light on it. 

 

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fifbrindacier Regular Member

fifbrindacier

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If it were mineralised it would seem heavy for its size. I'm not expert, but i'd say that the time taken for mineralisation dépends on a lot of factors : matrix, weather, temperature, conditions of burying, etc...

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theme-celtique.png.bbc4d5765974b5daba0607d157eecfed.png.7c09081f292875c94595c562a862958c.png

"On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

"We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes."

 

In memory of Doren

photo-thumb-12286.jpg.878620deab804c0e4e53f3eab4625b4c.jpg

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Harry Pristis Regular Member

Harry Pristis

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In my estimation, this tooth is not from an adult horse.  I doubt that it's a deciduous horse tooth.  Horse incisors have triangular roots with the long sides compressed and tapering.  This tooth does appear to have an infundibulum, but that may be an effect of the camera.

 

It's not a pig tooth, but I would research other domestic animals butchered in the past say 200 years.  My own collection is short on incisors of domesticated animals such as sheep.

 

 

horse_incisor_age_wear.JPG

horse_box_B.JPG

teeth_box_4_A.JPG

teeth_box_7_B.JPG

teeth_box_7_A.JPG

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http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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ynot Regular Member

ynot

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1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said:

In my estimation, this tooth is not from an adult horse.  I doubt that it's a deciduous horse tooth.  Horse incisors have triangular roots with the long sides compressed and tapering.

Could it be a deer or elk?

Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys."

Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough."

 

My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection

My favorite thread on TFF.

 

 

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Zenmaster6 Regular Member

Zenmaster6

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Judging the location and the shape, I would say its an old cervidae incisor. Old as in the last couple decades. very slightly large for a deer. Could also be moose. (I heard moose were introduced to the UK but I'm not sure how common they are.) But probably not an elk (due to shape)

However I wouldn't be disappointed at all. You indeed found a tooth!

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Harry Pristis Regular Member

Harry Pristis

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I don't think it's a cervid incisor either, though the tooth is worn considerably more than Rockwood's or my examples.  Furthermore, the root doesn't match the cervid teeth.

 

 

deer_incisors.jpg

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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ynot Regular Member

ynot

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5 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

I don't think it's a cervid incisor either, though the tooth is worn considerably more than Rockwood's or my examples.  Furthermore, the root doesn't match the cervid teeth.

Oh well, strike two-- and I am out.....:shrug:

Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys."

Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough."

 

My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection

My favorite thread on TFF.

 

 

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Bronzviking Regular Member

Bronzviking

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3 hours ago, ynot said:

Oh well, strike two-- and I am out.....:shrug:

You have one more guess, Lol. :D

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fifbrindacier Regular Member

fifbrindacier

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On 04/03/2019 at 8:03 PM, ynot said:

Oh well, strike two-- and I am out.....:shrug:

:calin:

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theme-celtique.png.bbc4d5765974b5daba0607d157eecfed.png.7c09081f292875c94595c562a862958c.png

"On ne voit bien que par le coeur, l'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux." (Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

"We only well see with the heart, the essential is invisible for the eyes."

 

In memory of Doren

photo-thumb-12286.jpg.878620deab804c0e4e53f3eab4625b4c.jpg

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dalmayshun Regular Member

dalmayshun

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thanks to the post, I am adding great information to my off line file.. Thanks to @Harry Pristis I NOW HAVE GREAT INFO ON HORSE TEETH, AS WELL AS A SELECTION OF OTHERS 

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