Strange structure on a teuthid phragmocone

[Aurelius]

Can anyone please help to ID the structure at the top of this phragmocone? Apologies that the photos aren't better, but hopefully they're good enough. I have seen this structure on other fossils from this location too,  but have never been able to work out what it is. The phragmocone is 4 inches long, the unknown fossil is nearly an inch long.

 

It's from the toarcian beacon limestone, in the UK. I'm also unsure what the phragmocone is from. I suspect this is too big for any of the belemnites from this location, so presumably a largeish squiddy thing. Most of the fossils found here are ammonites, with some nautiluses.

 

 

 

 

[TqB]

I'm not at all sure what the odd structure is though it is the right shape for the apex of a loligosepiid! - I doubt that the preservation is suitable though.

 

How large are the belemnites from there? There are plenty of Toarcian phragmocones from elsewhere that get to that size and larger - they're very roughly the same length as the rostra. Nice phragmocone anyway!

[Tidgy's Dad]

Yes, nice phragmocone. 

No idea what the other object could be. 

[Aurelius]

1 hour ago, TqB said:

I'm not at all sure what the odd structure is though it is the right shape for the apex of a loligosepiid! - I doubt that the preservation is suitable though.

 

How large are the belemnites from there? There are plenty of Toarcian phragmocones from elsewhere that get to that size and larger - they're very roughly the same length as the rostra. Nice phragmocone anyway!

 

That's very interesting. I wouldn't want to discount anything at this stage, strange things are sometimes preserved in these rocks, and they haven't been very well studied (although a paper is due to be published any time now, I believe).

 

You can find large belemnites in the very bottom layer of the sequence (the marlstone), but this phragmocone is from a much higher level (I think near the top, this one was found in a ploughed field). The rostrums tend not to be much bigger than a bookie's pencil in most of the higher levels, as far as I can see. This one is 2 inches in diameter, which I'm sure is a lot bigger than any belemnites I've seen there. I have seen a knowledgeable person ask whether they might be examples of Belemnotheutis?

 

Just for fun, and because I like it, here's a smaller one (or perhaps a fragment of a big one, who knows) - along with a shark fine spine, and numerous other bits: 

 

 

[TqB]

It's an interesting fauna - belemnotheutids aren't (yet) recorded from as early as the Toarcian (though I might have one from Whitby).

A phragmoteuthid is a possibility, stratigraphically speaking. We need to see one with an apex!