Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I am a new person and not a paleontoligist. While swimming in the Rock River Moline Illinois 52 years ago I found this bone deeply buried in the mud. There was much more to the find than what I could bring up, but this piece could be lifted free by unburying it with my feet. It was in 3-4 feet of water. it is 12 inches long and weighs 1.8 pounds. I would appreciate any input someone has time to offer please! All these years, I still have the bone and I do not know what it is. I have other photos but this site will not let me upload them. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailingAlongToo Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Leg bone from a mammal. Not sure which one. Don't know much about history Don't know much biology Don't know much about science books......... Sam Cooke - (What A) Wonderful World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Wow! Beautiful patina on that thing. @Harry Pristis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, caldigger said: Wow! Beautiful patina on that thing. @Harry Pristis It has been varnished. Dumb kid done it. I know it is a mammal bone. Can anyone suggest a forum more appropriate for my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Patience. You only posted this less than an hour ago. I have alerted a very knowledgeable member regarding bone ID. More members will likely chime in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Could use some other views, but looks like a right femur, probably from a cow/bovid. It’s the right size and it doesn’t look like a horse. You can upload other pictures by closing, then getting back in to the forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Norvik said: I have other photos but this site will not let me upload them. Thank You There is a 3.95 megabyte picture size limit per post. You can reduce the picture size to around 1 meg to get more pictures in a single post. Pictures smaller than that are hard to view. You can add more pictures in the reply to thread. If You still get blocked try refreshing the page. I agree with the above ID and have doubt it is very old. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 9 hours ago, ClearLake said: Could use some other views, but looks like a right femur, probably from a cow/bovid. It’s the right size and it doesn’t look like a horse. You can upload other pictures by closing, then getting back in to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 This appears to be a subadult (because of the separated epiphysis) bovid femur. It would take more research to distinguish cow from bison in this case. Horse illustration here for comparison. What is the beige stuff in the lumen in the proximal head? 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: This appears to be a subadult (because of the separated epiphysis) bovid femur. It would take more research to distinguish cow from bison in this case. Horse illustration here for comparison. What is the beige stuff in the lumen in the proximal head? The beige stuff appears to be bone marrow and it is hard as a rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Another camera shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 Another photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Norvik said: 1 hour ago, Norvik said: Another camera shot. This is a good illustration of the fusion process as the animal matures. On the left is the bone shaft. The suture represents the growth plate. The bone on the right is the epiphysis. As a juvenile, these bits of bone remain separated by the growth plate. When the animal matures (is finished growing), the growth plate disappears, and the shaft and the epiphysis fuse. In older adults, the suture line may be fully obscured. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Norvik said: The center is rock hard and appears to be bone marrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 On 3/12/2019 at 3:08 PM, Norvik said: The center is rock hard and appears to be bone marrow? Bone marrow is predominately fat. Marrow does not preserve as lumen-filler, particularly when exposed like this material. I don't know what the material is, but it is almost certainly exogenous. A drop of vinegar or other acid will test for calcite. Perhaps it is just a clump of uniformly-colored silica sand. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry Pristis said: Bone marrow is predominately fat. Marrow does not preserve as lumen-filler, particularly when exposed like this material. I don't know what the material is, but it is almost certainly exogenous. A drop of vinegar or other acid will test for calcite. Perhaps it is just a clump of uniformly-colored silica sand. I did the vinegar test. The tan substance remains hard for the most part, but soften a little bit near one edge. I could remove a tiny piece that disappeared when rolled between my fingers but like coconut butter would. It didn't feel sandy. The sharp knife I used made the surface a little less smooth. Does this mean it is not calcite? Nor silica sand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 44 minutes ago, Norvik said: I did the vinegar test. The tan substance remains hard for the most part, but soften a little bit near one edge. I could remove a tiny piece that disappeared when rolled between my fingers but like coconut butter would. It didn't feel sandy. The sharp knife I used made the surface a little less smooth. Does this mean it is not calcite? Nor silica sand? Well, I don't know what the yellowish substance is. Maybe it's 52 y.o. congealed fat! Not calcite if it didn't fizz. Not silica if it acted like coconut butter. Somehow, this story is not congealing either. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: Well, I don't know what the yellowish substance is. Maybe it's 52 y.o. congealed fat! Not calcite if it didn't fizz. Not silica if it acted like coconut butter. Somehow, this story is not congealing either. If the bone is only a year or less old , I could see the yellowish substance as being some decomposed marrow. Scrape some out and see what happens when You hold it in a flame. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearLake Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Harry Pristis said: Well, I don't know what the yellowish substance is. Maybe it's 52 y.o. congealed fat! 50 minutes ago, ynot said: If the bone is only a year or less old , I could see the yellowish substance as being some decomposed marrow. We know the bone is at least 52 years old and was at the bottom of a river, I think bone marrow is pretty much out of the question as @Harry Pristis suggested earlier. Could it be a glob of varnish that the "dumb kid" did many years ago? I know I have some varnish in cans in the garage that looks pretty much like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, ClearLake said: the bone is at least 52 years old Missed that part. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norvik Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 I appreciate the input on my bone very much! I will see if a piece comes out and can check it with flame. Never thought about the varnish drying like that! Wonder how I could test the “varnish” possibility. If the fire melts the piece I set flame to would that indicate varnish if it melts? Though I found it 52 years ago, the animal didn’t die in the deep mud during the 10 years we lived there. It was so deep I couldn’t remove any more of it with my foot. It would be much older than 52 years. The river where it was found is at Blackhawk State Park in IL. An area where there were many Indians living and filled with an artifact museum. Would there be any way to date this bone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 In the very first photo there appears to be a bit of the same substance oozing out of the suture crack. Could shellac have been used instead of varnish, or some type of glue? Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Norvik said: Wonder how I could test the “varnish” possibility. If the fire melts the piece I set flame to would that indicate varnish if it melts? The smell will be more telling, but varnish should melt to some extent. Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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