Black Sahara - Erfoud - Morocco

[taj]

16 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Partially that, but I also think you're paying for at least one middleman, and it's harder to haggle. Also they will charge more if they think you have money, i always look destitute and tell them i am a brother who lives in the country. They tend to charge the Japanese the most, as they are very reluctant to haggle, so i'm told, and then the Americans and folks from the Gulf countries as they are assumed to have loads of money. Stereotyping. 

Top Tip : Always wear rubbish shoes. many dealers judge a person's wealth by looking at the shoes. And second is jewellery / watches. 

And of course all the chitchat that happens before the sale . Might seem to western people an utter waste of time , might be quite enjoyable for some ( I quite like it for instance ) but also quite important for the seller since he will try to extract some information about what you would be ready to pay ( in general) . Sadly I will now have a very hard time trying to pass as a destitute student ...ahh that's life ( and the game!)

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, taj said:

And of course all the chitchat that happens before the sale . Might seem to western people an utter waste of time , might be quite enjoyable for some ( I quite like it for instance ) but also quite important for the seller since he will try to extract some information about what you would be ready to pay ( in general) . Sadly I will now have a very hard time trying to pass as a destitute student ...ahh that's life ( and the game!)

Haggling is one of my favourite things ever! I just love it. 

It's often a good idea to ask about some items you're not bothered about, haggle and reject them before coming to the piece you want. Having dismissed the previous pieces the price is likely to start off more reasonably and you begin at no more than half of what was stated. Decide if you're going to be a bit flexible or play hardball and stick to your guns. Then move off to other objects before returning to the one you wanted again. Criticize it, complain about poverty and feeding your 6 children etc.

It's great fun.

[Tidgy's Dad]

This next one I thought at first was a nice big productid brachiopod. 

But it isn't, and for once I wasn't disappointed, it's a whopping bivalve. 

My guess at this early stage of id is Panenka humilis, which might fit in with the previous two fossils above and suggest a Pragian origin. 

This is beautiful.

Hmmm, better picture needed.

 

 

[Ludwigia]

Love those Goniatites

[Tidgy's Dad]

I didn't have much time left and i was still a long way off the slopes of the Jbel Boutchafrane, the first mountain of fossils, let alone the famous Hamar Laghdad and the trilobite mud mounds that lay beyond that. Plenty to explore next time! I must come and spend a few days just at this one locality.

I was crossing over much more orangey strata, hard shales and thinly bedded limestones of the Upper Silurian, each later a half inch to an inch thick, with common crinoid columnals by now, but as Yuness had warned me, there was no sign of the famous Scyphocrinites beds. These crinoids can be found elsewhere in the Anti Atlas, but this place is where they're biggest, best and so frequent. Scyphocrinites is also interesting in that layers of the columnals, or ossicles, are frequently labelled as this and as Camarocrinus, but many now think that Camarocrinus is just the name for the lobolith, or float of the same species, a bulbous structure that suggests the crinoid was pelagic and not anchored to the sea bed.  

You can hammer pieces from the layers, but it doesn't show much. Often the bits are coated with limonite which can be scraped or washed off to reveal the true rock surface which is often a more grey colour. 

Another piece after a bit of prepping. 

I could remove more of the matrix to reveal more ossicles but doubt i can be bothered. It's quite hard work.

Some little bits are naturally half polished :

 

 

 

 

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

15 minutes ago, Ludwigia said:

Love those Goniatites

Thought you would. 

I do too! 

[Peat Burns]

10 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

some brachiopods!

They sure look a lot like Atrypa to me!  But I'm not familiar with the other possibilities in your area to be at all sure.  Nice finds!

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, Peat Burns said:

They sure look a lot like Atrypa to me!  But I'm not familiar with the other possibilities in your area to be at all sure.  Nice finds!

Thanks! 

To be fair I don't think anyone's familiar with the possibilities in my area! 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Reluctantly, I turned and headed back by the quickest possible route, 

And as i did so spotted this! 

It didn't look or feel Silurian to me, so i naturally thought Devonian, but when i got back to the shop, Yuness said he thought it was Lower Carboniferous and was surprised as was I, as the deposits of that age are on the back edge of the hill quite a way away. He showed me some just like it (some nicer, some bigger, some bigger and nicer!). Perhaps someone dropped it? Or it was washed there in a flash flood without suffering too much damage like the trilobite roller? Or it is a Devonian form? I don't know, but I think it is gorgeous.  

 

 

[ClearLake]

That is really nice looking!

[Tidgy's Dad]

17 minutes ago, ClearLake said:

That is really nice looking!

Thank you, i agree, and I've just added some more photos too. 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Heading back, I decided to follow one of the shallow, dried up streams, though this one ran very straight and was quite narrow, maybe an eroded trench? I know trenches were dug and are still dug to reach some of the older cephalopod beds and the crinoid beds too. Yuness had promised me a visit to his own crinoid tunnel on my next visit when I had more time. 

I was moving quite quickly, I was going to be late back, but I got luck anyway and found this :

Only a little piece, but quite pretty, I've prepped it a bit, could  do more, but don' think there's a lot of point. 

Partly because 60 seconds later I got really lucky and found this :

Again, I've done a little prepping, but not that much. Yet.

And then I really hit the jackpot. 

Whacked a piece of crinoid stem block sticking out from a bigger flat rock and three pieces fell off the bottom. Glued them back together when I got home, bit of minimal but very careful prepping with pin and stiff toothbrush and here is the find of the trip! 

Scyphocrinites elegans : 

I've managed to delete the photo while trying to reduce the file size so will have to get another one done later today when wifey's about. Drat.

Well, wifey, her camera- phone and the fossil are proving difficult to get together in the same place at the same time, so for now, here is one I purchased previously :

 

[Nimravis]

Some great finds Adam- Congrats.

[DeepTimeIsotopes]

Thanks for bringing us along on your trip!

[Rowboater]

Great photos and great descriptions of your trip!  Thanks

[ynot]

On 3/23/2019 at 6:15 PM, Tidgy's Dad said:

And then I really hit the jackpot. 

Whacked a piece of crinoid stem block sticking out from a bigger flat rock and three pieces fell off the bottom. Glued them back together when I got home, bit of minimal but very careful prepping with pin and stiff toothbrush and here is the find of the trip! 

Scyphocrinites elegans : 

I've managed to delete the photo while trying to reduce the file size so will have to get another one done later today when wifey's about. Drat.

I think You are teasing Us.

[Wrangellian]

Love it all so far, in particular the snail!

So.... How long does it take to get a pic of that Scyphocrinites? 

[fifbrindacier]

On 23/03/2019 at 12:59 PM, Tidgy's Dad said:

The next three species were all found quite close together, much nearer to the hill. 

if I'm right with their provisional ids, and I may well not be, they could be from the same beds, the Pragian limestones, 411.2 to 407.6 mya, the lower part of the Lower Devonian. 

First up, some brachiopods! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Desquamatia ? Atrypa?  @Peat Burns

The brachial valves are all matrix covered, so i need to do some prepping to help with the identification.

 

 

YYYYYYYEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS...………………………………………………………………………………………….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fifbrindacier]

On 21/03/2019 at 5:14 PM, Tidgy's Dad said:

Erfoud is also rightly famous for its crinoid bed. Scyphocrintes elegans.

Again these are just lying about outside the shop.

The crinoid beds are located above the black Silurian "Orthocerid Marble" and have been dated to the late Pridoli to early Lochkovian, topmost Silurian to lowermost Devonian and is in several layers dating from about 423 to 410 million years old. Like the orthocerids, they are usually sold as Devonian. 

The Silurian strata is exposed as one approaches the hills but the crinoid beds are at the bottom of each limestone layer and those exposed at the surface have been stripped long ago. Now the locals dig vertical shafts down into the Silurian strata and when they find evidence of the crinoid beds tunnel horizontally beneath them then boshing them to remove the crinoids a bit at a time and then, sometimes, gluing the pieces back together to form the huge impressive plates like this one Yuness had outside his shop.

 

Wow, stunning.

Do your friend organize trips like this for other people ?

[Tidgy's Dad]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:40 PM, Nimravis said:

Some great finds Adam- Congrats.

Thanks, Ralph! 

 

21 hours ago, UtahFossilHunter said:

Thanks for bringing us along on your trip!

Pleasure, Clayton. Thanks for looking. 

 

20 hours ago, Rowboater said:

Great photos and great descriptions of your trip!  Thanks

Thank you so much. 

 

20 hours ago, ynot said:

I think You are teasing Us.

i wish. It's very annoying. 

 

18 hours ago, Wrangellian said:

Love it all so far, in particular the snail!

So.... How long does it take to get a pic of that Scyphocrinites? 

Yeah, the snail is fantastic. 

Substitute Scyphocrinites added to post,  wifey being elusive, hopefully soon.

Thank you. 

13 hours ago, fifbrindacier said:

Wow, stunning.

Do your friend organize trips like this for other people ?

No, not yet, he does the ordinary tourist trips, but wants to be able to move into fossil trips as well. Hence my free trip in return for teaching him some geology. 

It's a very lucrative business here, there are many operators who do this. 

Thanks, Sophie. 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Meanwhile, the others were investigating the fossil shop on the other side of the road opposite the car. 

It's owner had encountered them on the way back and asked for money for the fossils we'd found earlier, the goniatites and orthocones, saying the closed 'shop' was his and that we'd got the fossils from his land. Not sure if this is true or not, but Anouar paid him $3 and all was well. 

Top Tip: If you are asked for money from the 'landowner' give them a few dirham, not much, but they only want to make a point. These shops are actually illegal and they don't own the land, but it's not worth pursuing, they can be invaluable with their local information and if you plan on buying from them, you really don't want to upset them or you'll never get a good deal. 

The big ammonite in the photo below is not real, but only an advertising prop, as we saw in Azrou and is seen in many places, but they'll sell them to you if you like!

The great thing about these little out of town shops is that most of the fossils are local, most of them are real, and you can get excellent bargains.

Great things.

However, my none palaeontologist wife and friends took photographs not of the wonderful specimens, but of pretty things they happened to like.

Grrrrrrr.  And when I returned and asked if they'd taken photos, they assured me it was all done. 

A bit of crinoid and some goniatites and orthocerids from the local brown cephalopod beds and some pieces from some of the darker, sort of dark grey rather than black, local beds which have a mixture of goniatites and orthocerids as well. All Devonian, except the crinoid (Silurian) and the pointed oval orthocerids, which seem to be on a blacker matrix and may be from elsewhere, probably  Rissani area. 

I dunno, some sort of desert calcite formation? Anouar liked it. 

The Flexicalymene ouzregui nodule must be from somewhere a little south of here, the minerals are probably local : 

The tent is so the guy has somewhere to stay in the summer, he doesn't live here, but in the busiest periods eats and sleeps in this cover.

 

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I did also buy some fossils from the guys here. 

First up, a lovely cidarid echinoid which is said to be Jurassic from the Atlas Mountains, so not much chance of an id, i guess, but i just loved it, especially after the ones i found near Ifrane, a long way from here. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/93193-ifrane-middle-atlas-morocco/

These are probably High or Anti Atlas.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I also purchased this trilobite. 

It's from the Kess Kess mud mounds near here, is not terribly well prepped, but i think I can improve on it. 

I rather love it

Cyphaspis hamlagdadicus.

At least you know with these out of town sorts that the local produce (though not necessarily stuff from elsewhere) is probably genuine.

[piranha]

31 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

I also purchased this trilobite. 

It's from the Kess Kess mud mounds near here, is not terribly well prepped, but i think I can improve on it. 

I rather love it

Cyphaspis hamlagdadicus.

 

 

This one is: Cyphaspis walteri 

 

Van Viersen, A.P.,  Prescher, H. 2014
"Devil horned” Cyphaspis (Trilobita, Otarioninae): examples from the Middle Devonian of the Ardennes (Belgium), Eifel (Germany) and Ma’der (Morocco).

Geologica Belgica, 17(3-4):268-275  PDF LINK

[Tidgy's Dad]

16 minutes ago, piranha said:

 

 

This one is: Cyphaspis walteri 

 

Van Viersen, A.P.,  Prescher, H. 2014
"Devil horned” Cyphaspis (Trilobita, Otarioninae): examples from the Middle Devonian of the Ardennes (Belgium), Eifel (Germany) and Ma’der (Morocco).

Geologica Belgica, 17(3-4):268-275  PDF LINK

Oh. 

is that good or bad? 

I don' t mean to be rude, but how is it C. walteri, when i can't find a listing for it here. 

I read this.:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324248737_The_world-famous_Devonian_mudmounds_at_Hamar_Laghdad_and_overlying_cephalopod-rich_strata

Why not C. hamlagdadicus?