Real or Fake?

[CBchiefski]

@xxxhalsteren I have to agree with @Fossildude19 that since the vast majority of members on TFF are American, it is often assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that U.S. laws automatically apply. One point I would just like to say, and I mean no ill in saying this, but rash action seemed to be what you were implying in your post. Of course with just text, it can be very difficult to tell what someone actually meant. Another point I would like to make, is some fossils do not react well to being submerged in water after being in typical indoor humidity and as such your statement might be incorrectly interpreted by those less experienced than you. Many first time and inexperienced fossil hunters visit the forum and use the information here as a guide. The majority of visitors are also American so it could be problematic if these new to the field find information which for them personally is bad advice. Please understand I assume you know what the correct actions are in your specific case but sadly this knowledge does not extend to many on the site.

[xxxhalsteren]

45 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said:

Your message is understandable, if a bit rough around the edges.   

 

However if you have to start with "I don't wanna start a debate that's pointless.", it is something that probably shouldn't be posted here. 

 

I was not holding the USA out as a benchmark. The simple fact is, the majority of the members here are American.

 

BUT,  ... Laws are different everywhere.  This needs to be taken into consideration when posting on an international forum.   

 

The action you described is illegal here, and probably elsewhere. We do not condone any illegal actions, in any country. We have to make sure that is known.

 

Not to mention, that destroying a fake fossil is unnecessary. Many resellers are not even aware that what they are selling is fake. 

Destroying a product, no matter how fake, deprives the seller of their product. Something that they have paid for.   

 

This doesn't seem quite as progressive as your other methods of dealing with other important matters.   

 

I don't think this is the right plae to debate things that are not related to fossils. 
In my eyes the fossils are not destroyed but, simply seperated back to there orginal state.
In most of Europe atleast as for as I know there is a change in there believe's and view. I believe that the truth and correct display of discovery's is more important then people there feeling about it. I don't accept biblestory's/fakenews/scams and instead should have respect for science. Not that I want to offend or that religion is shown as a bad thing. I just think science first feelings second.

[xxxhalsteren]

20 minutes ago, CBchiefski said:

@xxxhalsteren I have to agree with @Fossildude19 that since the vast majority of members on TFF are American, it is often assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that U.S. laws automatically apply. One point I would just like to say, and I mean no ill in saying this, but rash action seemed to be what you were implying in your post. Of course with just text, it can be very difficult to tell what someone actually meant. Another point I would like to make, is some fossils do not react well to being submerged in water after being in typical indoor humidity and as such your statement might be incorrectly interpreted by those less experienced than you. Many first time and inexperienced fossil hunters visit the forum and use the information here as a guide. The majority of visitors are also American so it could be problematic if these new to the field find information which for them personally is bad advice. Please understand I assume you know what the correct actions are in your specific case but sadly this knowledge does not extend to many on the site.
 

 

I think you guys are right in this and I should try to think about more people. I have certain believe's and sometimes this fires me up to share this with the world.
Thank you for opening my eye's to a wider view. Lets keep learning from each other.

[Fossildude19]

There is no debate.  Merely facts.   

Our view at the Forum is that knowing is half the battle. 

The more we educate people about real and fake fossils, the fewer people fall for fake fossils.  

 

 

[LordTrilobite]

4 hours ago, xxxhalsteren said:

If the reply is Yes I take the Jaw and hold it under water a fake will fall apart. They can't copy the orginal rock and this is a easy way to find out.

I would like to point out that some fossils from the Khouribga phosphate beds have original matrix that will dissolve in water without any tampering having been done. And some fossils from the same area that have been repaired or tampered with might not dissolve in water.

So the method is by no means conclusive in all cases.

[DPS Ammonite]

3 hours ago, xxxhalsteren said:

In my country I'm legaly allowed to investigated the authenticity of fossils that are offered to me because I have the education degree that is required.
The seller is breaking the law but, there need to be evidence that the seller is aware before offering it's a fake.

Interesting. What educational degree is required (the one that you have) that allows you to “investigate” possible fake fossils? Are all Dutch citizens with proper degrees allowed to investigate, confiscate and break possible fake fossils without permission of seller.

 

Here in the US, consumer protection laws would allow law enforcement government officials to investigate and seize possible fake items being sold. A citizen could report possible fake items to law enforcement agencies, but could not break or seize the items themselves. After seizure, the items could then be analyzed by persons including those with the relevant degrees such as paleontology.

[LordTrilobite]

Also, as a Dutch citizen I've never heard of this law.

[Aurelius]

I don't believe a word of it.

[Jackson g]

Just my two cents here, for the people if your going to be dealing and selling fossils. They might want to be able to authenticate what your selling before ever selling. Get a microscope, eye loupe, book of gelogy or paleontology of the area. It quite upsets me as well when people are selling fakes. It upsets me more when one doesn't educate themselves in the first place. No sense harming someone's passion or hobby for a quick buck$. I do understand not everyone has access to these tools though.

[Aurelius]

On 02/04/2019 at 2:41 PM, Jackson g said:

Just my two cents here, for the people if your going to be dealing and selling fossils. They might want to be able to authenticate what your selling before ever selling. Get a microscope, eye loupe, book of gelogy or paleontology of the area. It quite upsets me as well when people are selling fakes. It upsets me more when one doesn't educate themselves in the first place. No sense harming someone's passion or hobby for a quick buck$. I do understand not everyone has access to these tools though.

And, unfortunately, many people simply don't care. The antiquities market is the same. On a prominent auction website, at least 95% of the artefacts sold are forgeries. It isn't that bad with fossils, generally, but there are still some shady characters, as well as some who simply don't know any better.