Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Hey everyone, I’m curious what the folks on the forum think of this brachiopod. When I was visiting Gerry Kloc last month we were talking about every topic under the sun and undescribed species were one. He made mention of a Hamilton group brachiopod that was in between a Mediospirifer and Spinocyrtia. As soon as he said that I thought...”hey I think I have one of those!” Anyway....it’s a brach I’ve had for a while that I literally had on display sitting between my Mediospirifers and Spinocyrtias cause it literally didn’t fit either but seemed to fall in between. I thought maybe I had a weird oversized Mediospirifer but I’m willing to hear the forums opinion. Perhaps there is some literature I’m unaware of. I can’t call this a Mediospirifer or a Spinocyrtia. Ill let you all decide lol. Also, Sorry ahead if time....I don’t have a picture with an official scale I thought I took one!!! I’ll update an extra photo later today with a scale bar. This shows a Mediospirifer on top...brach in question in the middle and Spinocyrtia on the bottom. the flipside showing all 3 specimens again. I tried showing my most exemplary Mediospirifer and Spinocyrtia to make the best comparison possible. More pics of the specimen alone from all angles to come! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 The shape is distinctly different from the Mediospirifers and Spinocyrtias.....the “inter area” of the shell is different as well. Not sure what it is...I can’t even find this brach from the lower Devonian or upper Devonian fauna I’ve researched. It’s odd that’s for sure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Here is a comparison with a mucrospirifer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Lastly....just a few side view comparisons... Mediospirifer Not sure... Spinocyrtia let the speculation commence!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Al, I would have a look at Orthospirifer marcyi and Cyrtospirifer grabaui. 6 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 I did see those but I found this in the wanakah shale in Buffalo so I wasn’t sure if that was possible to find those? @Fossildude19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I have a ton of those laying around, they come up every so often, definitely much larger than the typical Mucrospirifers. I'd be interested to know more. 1 Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, DevonianDigger said: I have a ton of those laying around, they come up every so often, definitely much larger than the typical Mucrospirifers. I'd be interested to know more. Ok nice!!! I’m not the only one! Lol. I only have 1 at the moment but I swear I had more idk what I did. I tried re-comparing with some of the brachs tim suggested. I actually looked up brachs from Ohio yesterday to see if something in the Waldron shale or silica shale lines up but it’s not really a definitive fit...I keep being able to draw too many distinct differences. Have you found yours in the windom at penn Dixie? I’m 99% sure mine is from the upper wanakah just below the base of the tichenor. There is a Mediospirifer layer I like to collect on the lake shore. I’m almost sure thats where I got this one. put a pic up of what you got!! More the merrier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I have definitely found them in the spot you're talking about. I find them mostly weathered out of the Wanakah within 10-14 inches of the contact point with the Tichenor. I am not 100%, but I think I may have found one or two of them in the Bayview Coral Bed just above the Tichenor as well, but I could be mistaken. I know the most recent one that we found was below. I would guess that this is a Wanakah goodie. I'll have to dig mine out of the collection drawers and take some photos. I'll try to do that soon. 1 Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Actually, now that I think of it, I believe that James recently found one as well in the Wanakah, he might have his more readily accessible for photos. @JamesAndTheFossilPeach , can you upload some photos of your monster brachs from the Wanakah by the waterfall? 1 Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 @DevonianDigger wow!!! I’m actually stoked that it seems we have found these in the same layer!!! Upper Wanakah 10-18 inches below the tichenor in the brach layer. Now my spidy senses are tingling!!! Down the rabbit hole we go lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey P Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 That looks like a really big Mucrospirifer mucronatus to me, missing the "wings." I have a some of similar size from a site near Morrisville , but that isn't Wanakah Shale. All of my Wanakah mucros are small to medium in size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevonianDigger Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Yeah, these guys are huge compared to the normal ones from the Windom. I have never really looked closely enough at them to notice a difference other than that. I always just assumed they were Mucros. I'm not really a brach guy, so I never gave them much of a thought other than, "Holy cow, this is huge." But at least I kept them because of their size. It will be interesting to see if there are any differences, or enough to warrant investigating a new species. Our director of education did her doctoral work on brachs, albeit extant ones, but she might be of some use in figuring this out. 2 Jay A. Wollin Lead Fossil Educator - Penn Dixie Fossil Park and Nature Reserve Hamburg, New York, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jeffrey P said: That looks like a really big Mucrospirifer mucronatus to me, missing the "wings." I have a some of similar size from a site near Morrisville , but that isn't Wanakah Shale. All of my Wanakah mucros are small to medium in size. Mucrospirifer is not described to have gotten that large....as far as I was aware of. It has always been considered a small brach.....this one is very “robust” (has some thickness to it). Just way way to big it seems. I wondered the same myself but the they don’t really match well as far as details of sutures, shell proportions, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 @fossilcrazy @Shamalama Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmayshun Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Al Tahan said: I did see those but I found this in the wanakah shale in Buffalo so I wasn’t sure if that was possible to find those? @Fossildude19 Orthospirifer marcyi is listed from the Hamilton Group. Not sure about Cyrtospirifer. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 This is from Carl Wilson’s “field guide to Devonian paleontology” orthospirifer marcyi is a really good match but my specimen has a much smaller inter area. I think it could be marcyi. Maybe I just need to see more specimens. I kinda wrote it off because of the side views and view of the inter area. Maybe mine has distortion or crushing. I’m going to take a better picture on the inter area to try and compare. Hopefully we can see some more specimens. Mine could just look funny? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesAndTheFossilPeach Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Sorry I took so long to respond but yes I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 9 hours ago, JamesAndTheFossilPeach said: Sorry I took so long to respond but yes I can. Those look more along the lines of Spinocyrtia. Nice specimens. Darn I was hoping you had another orthospirifer! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesAndTheFossilPeach Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I do somewhere but they didn’t come out of that creek 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 If you find your orthospirifers let us know @JamesAndTheFossilPeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Tahan Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 This is my final update...I took a picture of a page from David Linsley’s “Devonian paleontology of New York” this book mostly focuses on plates found in James halls volumes. It’s outdated on some of the names but the pictures are still helpful.....to an extent..... however this is why I’ve been very confused. Figures 3-12 say this is a “spirifer marcyi” that’s an outdated name. In Carl Wilson’s book he used images from these 3-12 figures and labeled them as the orthospirifer marcyi. To be honest....kinda looks like more than 1 brach species being lumped into figures 3-12. Figures 9 and 10 fit what I have excellent. Figures 3 and 4 are a “good” match as well. Figures 5, 6, 7, 11 fit quite horrible if I’m being honest....the shell proportions are more “shield like” and the “inter area” (flat area in the hinge) is huge on 5, 6, 7, 11 and tiny on figure 10 and 3. Figures 5, and 11 honestly look more like a Spinocyrtia....sounds kinda crazy but I can’t get past what I’m seeing. Look at figures 3, 9 and 11.....do you really think those are the same species? For some reason I can’t accept it. Carl Wilson’s book has pictures that fit well with orthospirifer but he shows one image that shows the species has a large “inter area”. That’s where I just need to see more specimens to know the true nature of the shell..... at this point I know I have an orthospirifer but I don’t know exactly what it’s “supposed” to look like 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeymig Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Found 3 nice ones on 7/23/2019 in Livingston County NY. Orthospirifer marcyi is the species that fits the size. These are from 65-75mm. 4 Many times I've wondered how much there is to know. led zeppelin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagebrush Steve Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 hours ago, mikeymig said: Found 3 nice ones on 7/23/2019 in Livingston County NY. Orthospirifer marcyi is the species that fits the size. These are from 65-75mm. I see you collect fossil coins, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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