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Haravex

Rex or nano

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Haravex

So the tooth along with a few others I bought from a popular auction website the tooth in question measured 1.51 inches and defo a pre max tooth.

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Haravex

was wondering if @Troodon or @hxmendoza could help and if so thanks in advance

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Troodon

Do you have a location ? Can you take a sharper photo ofcthe first one

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Haravex

He'll creek formation 

PSX_20190413_233732.jpg

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Bobby Rico

Strange looking tooth. :headscratch:

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Troodon

Hell Creek Fm is not a location , State and County needed to verify what you have been told.  Too large to be Nanotyrannus 

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Haravex

I only know that it was stated Montana nothing more than this.

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Troodon

For future reference Montana has lots of different exposures with Tyrannosaurid teeth and Ive see seller identify Judith River Fm teeth has Trex.  Always good to verify.

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Haravex

Right ok I did ask from what I was understanding he had these for a while there where also two other teeth that are from same location 

PSX_20190413_183226.jpg

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Haravex

So in regards to the first tooth what would you be thinking? @Troodon or @LordTrilobite but I feel you top as being the expert on north american dinosaur material.

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Troodon

Size? and serration count on distal side (5 mm in center).  If they are very fine its a cf Richardoestesia gilmorei

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LordTrilobite

Dunno, I normally stay away from most dinosaur teeth ID outside of Kem Kem.

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Haravex

tyrannosauirdae tooth -

Crown Height - CH 37mm

Crown Base Length - CBL 19mm

Crown Base Width - CBW 11mm

AL - 37mm

Distal Serration Count - midline 2-5 mm wide depending on size of tooth 5mm- 18 2mm 8 

Mesial Serration Count - midcarina 1-3 mm wide depending on size of tooth

 

therpod indet 1 

Crown Height - CH 13mm

Crown Base Length - CBL 4mm

Crown Base Width - CBW 1mm

Distal Serration Count - midline 2-5 mm wide depending on size of tooth 2mm 11

Mesial Serration Count - midcarina 1-3 mm wide depending on size of tooth 2mm 18

 

2019-04-27-22.27.45 ZS PMax.jpg

2019-04-27-22.28.23 ZS PMax.jpg

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Troodon

Tyrannosaurid pre-max teeth cannot be distinguished between one another so locality is very important.  If you believe this is from a locality (State and County) that the Hell Creek Fm is found than its a T-rex tooth since Nanotyrannus pre-max teethdo not come tgat large.

Your second tooth is  .. cf Richardoestesia gilmorei

 

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Haravex
2 hours ago, Troodon said:

Tyrannosaurid pre-max teeth cannot be distinguished between one another so locality is very important.  If you believe this is from a locality (State and County) that the Hell Creek Fm is found than its a T-rex tooth since Nanotyrannus pre-max teethdo not come tgat large.

Your second tooth is  .. cf Richardoestesia gilmorei

 

Thanks Troodon, quick question what does the CF stand for?

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Troodon

R.gilmorei is not described in the Hell Creek Fm but the teeth compare (cf) to those where its described. 

The abbreviation cf is latin for  confer/conferatur, both meaning "compare")

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Haravex

This is the final tooth I don't have much hope for it because the serations are mostly worn down 

Crown Height - CH 8mm

Crown Base Length - CBL 3mm

Crown Base Width - CBW 1mm

 

2019-04-28-02.30.53 ZS PMax.jpg

2019-04-28-02.31.24 ZS PMax.jpg

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Haravex

And this is a close up of the few serrations left with a microscope 

PSX_20190428_022929.jpg

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Haravex

I believe this tooth might be Paronychodon, but am unsure is this just a tooth taxon? 

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hxmendoza

@Troodon‘s assessments on both teeth are correct. That smaller striated tooth is a type of Paronychodon species. The issue seems to be that the type teeth of Paronychodon do not have serrations and this one does. Though Paronychodon lacustris is out of the Judith River Formation. 

 

Olshevsky referred the Hell Creek Paronychodon  teeth to Paronychodon caperatus in 1991. But I’m not sure this is an accepted species. I haven’t read the paper so I cannot comment on if the tooth he referred had serrations or not. 

Perhaps @Troodon can add to this if he has more info. 

 

Zapsalis sp. has striations and serrations. But the morphology of that tooth taxon does not match this tooth.

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Troodon

Interesting tooth did not see the post thanks @hxmendoza.. I dont think the serrations are worn just not there..  Very unusual tooth the vertical ridges are typical of the two mentioned above Paronychodon and Zapsalis but the overall morphologies dont fit either however its more "Paronychodon like" than the other.  There are lots of variation in morphologies with Paronychodon all poorly understood so you may want to send an email to P Currie whos is the best to analyze it he might respond and give you his thoughts..  

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doushantuo

apologies if repost

Julia Sankey,Donald Brinkman,Merrilee Guenther,Phillip J Currie

Small theropod and bird teeth from the late Cretaceous Judith River Group,Alberta

Journal of Paleontology,76,v.4/2002

might be of some use

fig11srtarenk.jpg

imagedgg_8800ee4_7701.jpg

srtarenk.jpg

 

edit/10-5-2019:reason :this paper deserves some recognition,perhaps the added images give an idea of the flavour,besides plots 

like fig.6 and 7 are pretty useful(size comparisons!) 

Paronychodon,Richardoestesia,Saurornitholestes

caveat:bear in mind that the paper is from 2002*

(think,e.g.'"S." robustus revision)

 

 

 

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