Eocene lignitized seeds/fruits from Virginia

[MarcoSr]

I just sent the below Eocene lignitized seeds/fruits from Virginia to a paleo botanist at the Smithsonian Institution, who will use a new CT scanner that makes this material vastly more interpretable than before, to study them.  Since these seeds/fruits are not mineralized like petrified wood they should have been stored in Glycerin with a bit of thymol, which is an anti fungal agent, rather than in gem jar cups.  You can see the discoloration of some of the foam from deterioration of the seeds/fruits over the 15 to 20 years that most of them were stored.  I hope that they are still useful.  I wish I knew about the proper storage years ago.  Some of the specimens show very little deterioration which makes me believe that they are modern contaminants.

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

[sixgill pete]

Very interesting Marco. What kind of oil should they have been stored in?

[MarcoSr]

23 minutes ago, sixgill pete said:

Very interesting Marco. What kind of oil should they have been stored in?

 

Don

 

I'm awaiting that exact answer from Dr. Wing.  I'm trying to confirm with him some things that I read on the internet.  When he lets me know, I'll post it.

 

Marco Sr.

[sixgill pete]

Were these found in a completely non-marine exposure or did they come from a marine exposure?

This is something I never have considered when searching matrix. 

[MarcoSr]

10 hours ago, sixgill pete said:

Were these found in a completely non-marine exposure or did they come from a marine exposure?

This is something I never have considered when searching matrix. 

 

Don

 

Near shore marine exposure.  There was also lots of lignitized wood in this exposure.  If you are searching matrix and finding lignitized wood, keep an eye out for lignitized seeds/nuts.

 

Marco Sr.

[sixgill pete]

2 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

 

Don

 

Near shore marine exposure.  There was also lots of lignitized wood in this exposure.  If you are searching matrix and finding lignitized wood, keep an eye out for lignitized seeds/nuts.

 

Marco Sr.

I will keep that in mind Marco. There are a couple of Cretaceous exposures that I bring matrix from that have decent amounts of lignitized wood and are near shore marine enviroments.

[MarcoSr]

On 4/23/2019 at 8:22 PM, sixgill pete said:

Very interesting Marco. What kind of oil should they have been stored in?

 

On 4/23/2019 at 8:45 PM, MarcoSr said:

 

Don

 

I'm awaiting that exact answer from Dr. Wing.  I'm trying to confirm with him some things that I read on the internet.  When he lets me know, I'll post it.

 

Marco Sr.

 

Don

 

I edited my original post to update the storage information.  Per Dr. Wing, the lignitized seeds/fruits should be stored in Glycerin with a bit of thymol, which is an anti fungal agent.

 

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

I am donating another group of Eocene lignitized seeds/fruits from Virginia to another paleo researcher, at the Smithsonian Institution, who is coming to my house Saturday to pick them up.  This donation has been in the works for over a year and a half, but was delayed because COVID-19 closed down the researcher's lab until recently.  I'm also donating hundreds of pieces of lignitized wood and hundreds of pyrite encased seeds/fruits.

 

A close-up picture of pieces of lignitized wood and pyrite encased seeds/fruits collected in a single trip:

 

 

 

 

A picture of pieces of lignitized wood and pyrite encased seeds/fruits that I collected in a number of trips over a one-year period that I'm donating.  For size reference, the paper plate is 9 inches in diameter.  I'm also donating a lot more lignitized wood that I collected over a 25-year period.

 

 

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

I received via e-mail the below update from the researcher studying these Eocene lignitized seeds/fruits from Virginia.  So hopefully this donation will produce some new useful scientific data on fruits/seeds from the Eocene in Virginia.

 

 

"The specimens you provided are definitely of interest! I found a number of additional fruits/seeds I plan to CT scan, and I still have some of your material to go through. I have not had a chance to scan any pyrite-covered specimens but I plan to have a look next time I book time on the scanner--I will keep you posted."

 

 

Marco Sr.

[siteseer]

On 4/23/2019 at 5:45 PM, MarcoSr said:

 

Don

 

I'm awaiting that exact answer from Dr. Wing.  I'm trying to confirm with him some things that I read on the internet.  When he lets me know, I'll post it.

 

Marco Sr.

 

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

I assume Dr. Wing is Scott L. Wing.  I read an interesting article of his in Natural History magazine (Wing, 2001) about 20 years ago.  it was about the subtropical Early Eocene climate in the Big Horn Basin, Wyoming, a climate that dominated much of western North America and maybe much of the continent at the time.  I happened to notice a photocopy of his article earlier today in my files while looking for some information on Paleocene-Early Eocene primates in North America.  Then, just now, I read this thread.  The article might be of interest to you.

 

Wing, S. L.  2001.

"Hot times in the Bighorn Basin."  Natural History.  110 (3):48–54.

 

 

Jess

Edited June 17, 2022 by siteseer

[MarcoSr]

13 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

I assume Dr. Wing is Scott L. Wing.  I read an interesting article of his in Natural History magazine (Wing, 2001) about 20 years ago.  it was about the subtropical Early Eocene climate in the Big Horn Basin, Wyoming, a climate that dominated much of western North America and maybe much of the continent at the time.  I happened to notice a photocopy of his article earlier today in my files while looking for some information on Paleocene-Early Eocene primates in North America.  Then, just now, I read this thread.  The article might be of interest to you.

 

Wing, S. L.  2001.

"Hot times in the Bighorn Basin."  Natural History.  110 (3):48–54.

 

 

Jess

 

Jess

 

Thank you for the article reference.

 

Dr, Wing was my original contact, but the study of these seeds/fruits is now being conducted by Dr. Greg Stull.  Below is a poster presentation, on pyritized fossil fruits from the Eocene London Clay Formation in the UK, that Dr. Stull was a coauthor.  I'm hoping the pyritized seeds/fruits from the Eocene of Virginia are as scientifically useful.

 

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

[siteseer]

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

There are also several photos of fruits and seeds in "London Clay Fossils of Kent and Essex" (Medway Fossil and Mineral Society, 2009).  It's a fantastic guide to London Clay fossils.  It's sort of an expanded edition of the authors' earlier book, "London Clay Fossils of the Isle of Sheppey" (Medway Lapidary and Mineral Society, 2000) in that it shows a lot more fossils though the focus is on those a different from different areas.

 

It's a great book for anyone who collects Eocene fossils from anywhere as many of the same genera are known from elsewhere in Europe and the world.

 

Jess

 

 

Rayner, D., T. Mitchell, M. Rayner, and F. Clouter.  2009.

London Clay Fossils of Kent and Essex. Medway Fossil and Mineral Society.

Edited June 17, 2022 by siteseer

[MarcoSr]

1 hour ago, siteseer said:

Hi Marco Sr.,

 

There are also several photos of fruits and seeds in "London Clay Fossils of Kent and Essex" (Medway Fossil and Mineral Society, 2009).  It's a fantastic guide to London Clay fossils.  It's sort of an expanded edition of the authors' earlier book, "London Clay Fossils of the Isle of Sheppey" (Medway Lapidary and Mineral Society, 2000) in that it shows a lot more fossils though the focus is on those a different from different areas.

 

It's a great book for anyone who collects Eocene fossils from anywhere as many of the same genera are known from elsewhere in Europe and the world.

 

Jess

 

 

Rayner, D., T. Mitchell, M. Rayner, and F. Clouter.  2009.

London Clay Fossils of Kent and Essex. Medway Fossil and Mineral Society.

 

Jess

 

There is a lot of commonality between the Eocene London Clay Formation of the UK and the Eocene Nanjemoy Formation of Virginia.  I've contacted the authors through researchgate.net to try to get a PDF copy.  However, most times I don't hear back when I do this.

 

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

As a quick update to this thread, I just received the below information in an e-mail from Dr. Greg Stull.

 

 

"................. planning to focus on this more in the coming months. I've already scanned a large number of specimens, but I plan to do one (maybe two) additional rounds of CT scanning to make sure I have good representation of all the diversity and morphological variation. Then I'll be in good shape to put together a manuscript.

 

................. Your donation has been hugely valuable and I will definitely keep you posted as the publication moves forward and if there are any other exciting developments."

 

 

Marco Sr.