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Plantguy

Several more Florida Shark tooth ID questions

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Plantguy

So I was recently going thru some Florida tooth material (Mio/Plio-Pleistocene) from years ago and realized I had lumped a bunch of this stuff in a packet without investigating them too thoroughly. I started to bug Jeff about several and thought I'd see what you all thought as well so I could learn something more from you all. 

 

So just 4 teeth for this thread.

I was noticing #1's serrations were pretty coarse and well developed and unusual and I was asking about its possibilities and the meg possibility came up. I then found #2 tonight in another bag and it has some similarities to #1. Neither seem very thick/robust or show a bourlette but their serrations are definitely different than most I have seen. #3 has those finer serrations and shape I usually have put into the Carcharhinus ID bucket. Could they all be Carcharhinus? And lastly #4 may be pathological? What say you all? I know messing with single teeth ID's is pushing the envelope but appreciate any thoughts... 

5cdb79be42dac_Comparison123panorama.jpg.9336cd45ebca14dbba136eea972d3ae5.jpg

Here's another view of just # 1 and #2. 

5cdb7a061a3b6_1and2comparisonpanorama.jpg.680f9b8d11f85ad666ec976519e9aba4.jpg

And lastly #4: 

5cdb7a24b2ff7_unknown4panorama.jpg.7f6e53a2fd8cf62a790408771681e752.jpg

Thanks for the help. 

Regards, Chris 

 

 

 

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Macrophyseter

For #1 and #2, my best guess is that they are both some rare variant of Carcharhinus spp. (Likely bull shark for #1?) with unusually coarse serrations. Both teeth have the distinct notch-like nutrient groove and general tooth outline of a requiem shark. I doubt it could be a meg, but if it's not Carcharhinus, the next best guess for me, although would be a very long stretch, is that they could be some morphotype from the serrated giant thresher Alopias palatasi. However, the only thing that these teeth have that resemble A. palatasi teeth are the coarse serrations that refine near the apex of the crown and the general broad, compressed, and curved crown, which leads me to doubt that those teeth pertain to such species.

 

#3 looks like a copper shark Carcharhinus brachyurus IMO.

 

#4 seems to have a slight patho at the crown where the cutting blades seem to warp towards the labial side and crown apex bend IMO. Species-wise, it's probably either a lemon shark or one of the Carcharhinus species whose teeth are morphologically similar to it such as the silky or blacktip shark.

 

These are all just my guess as a non-expert.

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Plantguy
18 hours ago, Macrophyseter said:

For #1 and #2, my best guess is that they are both some rare variant of Carcharhinus spp. (Likely bull shark for #1?) with unusually coarse serrations. Both teeth have the distinct notch-like nutrient groove and general tooth outline of a requiem shark. I doubt it could be a meg, but if it's not Carcharhinus, the next best guess for me, although would be a very long stretch, is that they could be some morphotype from the serrated giant thresher Alopias palatasi. However, the only thing that these teeth have that resemble A. palatasi teeth are the coarse serrations that refine near the apex of the crown and the general broad, compressed, and curved crown, which leads me to doubt that those teeth pertain to such species.

 

#3 looks like a copper shark Carcharhinus brachyurus IMO.

 

#4 seems to have a slight patho at the crown where the cutting blades seem to warp towards the labial side and crown apex bend IMO. Species-wise, it's probably either a lemon shark or one of the Carcharhinus species whose teeth are morphologically similar to it such as the silky or blacktip shark.

 

These are all just my guess as a non-expert.

Thanks for the looks and assessment/response. I was aware of many of the Carcharhinus species and some of  their breadth/variety but I can see I'm wanting to know more and just scratching the surface with these teeth. Between Jeff's feedback and your and Marco's post you are stirring up my curiosity. I've been staring at some of the other serrated teeth I have--including great white and hemi's, tigers and its interesting to see the differences that I never really paid alot of attention to. Last night I had all kinds of teeth out on the kitchen table and counter and was taking photos...the wife is being really patient with me.

 

Thanks again! 

Regards, Chris 

 

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Plantguy
12 hours ago, MarcoSr said:

Agree that #1 and #2 are not megs because they have nutrient grooves.

 

#4 doesn't really look pathologic to me.  One possibility is a lower Carcharhinus obscurus (Dusky Shark) tooth.  See lower tooth B below in the C. obscurus dentition from Voigt & Weber 2011 "Field Guide for Sharks of the genus Carcharhinus"

 

 

5cdbf0e2f18d4_Carcharhinusobscurus.thumb.jpg.6b05e6cdfc121358b803d6dbc2910ee7.jpg

 

 

Marco Sr.

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback/insight and reference. Much appreciated!

Regards, Chris 

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hemipristis

I’m the top row of three, #2 appears to be C. obscurus  like Macrophyseter noted. I believe #3 to be a bull shark, C. leucas, based upon the more uniform and finer serrations, the wider root, and most importantly the  nutrient pore being below the highest part of the root; I.e., closer to the root base. #1 is curious indeed. It’s clearly a Carcharhinus. The species though.....

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sixgill pete

I think 1,2 and 4 are C. obscurus and 3 is C. leucas. Just my thoughts and gut feeling on these teeth. That is how I would label them if they were in my collection. Definitely 4 nice teeth, Chris.

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Plantguy
On 5/16/2019 at 1:50 AM, hemipristis said:

I’m the top row of three, #2 appears to be C. obscurus  like Macrophyseter noted. I believe #3 to be a bull shark, C. leucas, based upon the more uniform and finer serrations, the wider root, and most importantly the  nutrient pore being below the highest part of the root; I.e., closer to the root base. #1 is curious indeed. It’s clearly a Carcharhinus. The species though.....

 

13 hours ago, sixgill pete said:

I think 1,2 and 4 are C. obscurus and 3 is C. leucas. Just my thoughts and gut feeling on these teeth. That is how I would label them if they were in my collection. Definitely 4 nice teeth, Chris.

Thanks guys! I'm learning to look more closely at these guys for details/clues that are actually diagnostic.

I did get sidetracked with #1's general comparison to some other serrated teeth I have--curious to see even though I know I'm violating good photography protocols with trying to shoot so many irregular surfaces in a group shot without using stacking software...#1 holds it own for being smaller! 

5cdeac3a90680_megandgwandcarcharhinuscomparison.thumb.jpg.1c73241bca41d6ad5c1e253ca28348a1.jpg

Appreciate the experienced eyes and detailed replies! 

Regards, Chris 

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