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PODIGGER

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PODIGGER

These two, being as small as they are, have me confused.  I am leaning toward mammoth on #5.  Could #6 be Sloth?  Any input is appreciated.

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digit

I get a mammoth feel from the first and the second is likely too small for sloth but the giant armadillos have the same shape teeth so check into images of Holmesina.

 

I love a good mystery. ;)

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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PODIGGER

Thanks Ken. I will check Holmesina!

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PODIGGER

Looked at quite a few images last night and agree Holmesina is a good possibility.  I will continue the search today as the specimen I have is heavily worn on the chewing surface.  Interesting that the piece was found near where I pulled up a Glyptodont Scute, Glyptotherium floridanum and a Giant Armadillo Scute, Holmesina septentrionalis.

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digit

From what little I've recently learned I believe Holmesina septentrionalis is more rare in southern Florida and most (but not all) Holmesina bits we find in the Peace River are more likely from Holmesina floridanus. I recently found an astragalus (ankle) bone that was identified as H. septentrionalis and Dr. Hulbert from the FLMNH mentioned that they are more uncommon species in the southern half of Florida and that they did not have a single H. septentrionalis astragalus in their collection (now they do). ;)

 

Cingulates (order Cingulata) which includes pampatheres (Holmesina), long-nosed armadillos (Dasypus), and glyptodonts (Glymptotherium) are not particularly common finds in South Florida (Peace River and other waterways). The other order (Pilosa) in the superorder Xenarthra contains another unusual group, the ground sloths--one of the holy grails of Peace River fossil hunting. :)

 

Looks like you've found a productive hunting site. I'd revisit it often till the interesting finds stop turning up.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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PODIGGER

I have no technical background in the scientific field and am extremely thankful that I joined this forum.  Your assistance and that of other members has been informative and very helpful.  Thank you!

 

Jim

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digit

We have quite a (happy) mixture of professionals, topic experts, seasoned amateurs, and eager rank novices making up our membership. We do a pretty good job of sharing that knowledge here--informational trickle-down is much more of a real thing than economic trickle-down which remains unproven. ;) Before long you will have accumulated quite a bit of knowledge of the types of fossils that you have the most experience with and will find yourself answering ID questions and reiterating the learned knowledge to those that follow you on the forum. :)

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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Harry Pristis
3 hours ago, digit said:

From what little I've recently learned I believe Holmesina septentrionalis is more rare in southern Florida and most (but not all) Holmesina bits we find in the Peace River are more likely from Holmesina floridanus. I recently found an astragalus (ankle) bone that was identified as H. septentrionalis and Dr. Hulbert from the FLMNH mentioned that they are more uncommon species in the southern half of Florida and that they did not have a single H. septentrionalis astragalus in their collection (now they do). ;)

 

Cingulates (order Cingulata) which includes pampatheres (Holmesina), long-nosed armadillos (Dasypus), and glyptodonts (Glymptotherium) are not particularly common finds in South Florida (Peace River and other waterways). The other order (Pilosa) in the superorder Xenarthra contains another unusual group, the ground sloths--one of the holy grails of Peace River fossil hunting. :)

. . . 

 

Ken . . . These assertions do not match my experience.  These are impressions, I think, not reliable distribution data.  For example, I have collected many, many H. septentrionalis osteoderms in the Peace River; however, the armadillo parts I found in the Santa Fe River (North Florida example) are predominantly H. floridanus.  The only H. septentrionalis astragalus I have was found by a Forum member near the Caloosahatchee River (So. Florida).  The  bones of armadillos in my collection are from Santa Fe H. floridanus.

 

Better than these impressions, think about what you know about the biochronology of these armadillos.  H. floridanus is a species of the Early Pleistocene, a time when South Florida was time and again inundated by the sea.  H. septentrionalis is a species of the Late Pleistocene when sea level was low.  Based on this fact alone it seems reasonable that South Florida and North Florida would have similar populations of the later armadillo.  And, there may be fewer of the early species in South Florida.

 

 It is a disservice to propagate opinions as fact.  I am sure that Richard Hulbert would not want to defend his off-hand remark about the distribution of these armadillos.  It is a trap when we generalize from what is basically anecdotal experience or collecting bias.

 

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digit
28 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

It is a disservice to propagate opinions as fact.  I am sure that Richard Hulbert would not want to defend his off-hand remark about the distribution of these armadillos.  It is a trap when we generalize from what is basically anecdotal experience or collecting bias.

Very good point. I'll have to discuss this more with Richard when I drop off the specimen. The biochronology argument makes a lot of sense. I'll bring this up with Richard. I personally know very little of the two species of Holmesina that can be found in South Florida. Other than a few osteoderms (which I assume can be identified to species with appropriate measurements) I only have found a single molar from both species and this one astragalus. It is entirely likely that some of the indeterminate bone fragments that are found in (and usually returned to) the Peace River may belong to this genus but identifiable Holmesina material remains elusive to me.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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PODIGGER

Gentleman, thank you for the input.  Please take a look at the items again posted here.  I am identifying #1 as a Giant Armadillo Scute - Holmesina Septentrionalis and #2 Glyptodont Dermal Scute Glyptotherium Floridanusfrom photos found on line and two books, Mark Renz's Fossiling In Florida and Vertebrate Fossils: A Neophytes Guide by Frank A. Kocsis jr.  In looking back at a prior post of mine, May10th, Bronzviking identified #1 as Pleistocene Holmesina Floridanus Armadillo Scute.  

 

Please take a look at both images and give me your opinion.  I don't want to be misidentifying the specimens. 

 

Back to the river tomorrow!

Jim 

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