Question about Mosasaur tooth

[Savvas]

Hello, I am new to the hobby and got my first mossosaur tooth with root. I bought it from one of the most reputable sellers who stated it was 100% as found, but being new and also quite paranoid I needed some opinions. Also please can you help me to identify the species as for a Prognathodon I think it looks a bit too light coloured and thin. The matrix of the fossil seems to have some other fossils inside as well as small fractions of bone and when put under light there are bits that glow (phosphate?). I would really like to know your opinions. I thank you all in advance!

[FossilDAWG]

It looks like it might be an Enchodus tooth, a large fish, rather than a mosasaur.  Wait to see what others say, though.

 

Don

[Savvas]

Thanks for the unswer but I think it cant be Enchodus because it is quite big and has no curve on it.

[snolly50]

Not Prognathodon, consider Halisaurus; also FossilDAWG's suggestion of fish donor. The partial root does look "mosasaur" to me, but I am not certain as to the appearance of a Enchodus root. The block of matrix looks natural enough to convince me, but I'm easy. Tooth size would be helpful. Good luck, have fun.

[TyBoy]

Looks like a Mosasaur tooth with a worn root.  Matrix does look natural with typical bits of other marine fossils. 

 

@LordTrilobite

[sixgill pete]

I agree with fish. Look at the tip of the tooth. Not mosasaur in my opinion. Very possibly enchodus as @FossilDAWG said. 

[ziggycardon]

Not sure about Enchodus, could be, but not quite convinced by the shape. 
It is quite slender for a mosasaur tooth but it is also oddly shaped for an Enchodus tooth and the enamel is more in line with what I know for mosasaur than for Enchodus
Could be Eremiasaurus or Halisaurus.

[Natalie81]

Not Enchodus in my opinion. Mosasaur, yes 

[Troodon]

Its a nice Mosasaur tooth with a poorly preserved root.  Natural matrix block

[Savvas]

2 hours ago, Troodon said:

Its a nice Mosasaur tooth with a poorly preserved root.  Natural matrix block

Thank you all for your ideas and help. The seller states something I didn't see when I was buying it, in the characteristics of this specimen it is written unidentified mossasaur species. What could this mean as this particular seller always states correctly the species of a specimen, could this mean that it is from a new mossasaur that is not identified yet ,or just a hard one to guess?

[Savvas]

16 hours ago, snolly50 said:

Not Prognathodon, consider Halisaurus; also FossilDAWG's suggestion of fish donor. The partial root does look "mosasaur" to me, but I am not certain as to the appearance of a Enchodus root. The block of matrix looks natural enough to convince me, but I'm easy. Tooth size would be helpful. Good luck, have fun.

Sorry I forgot to mention it, it is 2.7" 

[snolly50]

12 minutes ago, Savvas said:

it is 2.7" 

Then it's large for a Halisaurus and the tip does not bend back as expected for that critter. Perhaps someone with deeper knowledge will comment. @jnoun11

[FossilDAWG]

It is hard to judge the three-dimensional shape of objects based on a photo from one angle.  Given that, the tooth seems to me to be relatively thin and almost flat on the side, so the cross section would be like a tear drop.  Also the OP refers to the tooth being "thin".  This seems to be inconsistent with a mosasaur ID.  Perhaps a photo could be taken that would show the cross-sectional shape of the tooth?

 

Don

[LordTrilobite]

Absolutely not Enchodus. This is mosasaur alright. And it also doesn't look like it was tampered with. So a good purchase.

 

There look to be two mosasaur teeth with roots in here. They don't look like Halisaurus to me. I'd say these are either Prognathodon sp. (possibly juvenile) or Eremiasaurus heterodontus. They don't look like the typical fat Prognathodon teeth we normally see because these are likely anterior teeth. It actually looks like there is also a fragment of the original jaw left in the matrix that's attached to the root of the more complete tooth. So it might be worth it to prep this piece a little.

 

There also seem to be several random fish bone fragments strewn about in the matrix, which is pretty typical for a piece such as this. That circle to the left of the more complete tooth, I think, can be one of two things. It could be a fish vertebra. Or it could be the underside of a third mosasaur tooth. One without root.

[Savvas]

15 minutes ago, FossilDAWG said:

It is hard to judge the three-dimensional shape of objects based on a photo from one angle.  Given that, the tooth seems to me to be relatively thin and almost flat on the side, so the cross section would be like a tear drop.  Also the OP refers to the tooth being "thin".  This seems to be inconsistent with a mosasaur ID.  Perhaps a photo could be taken that would show the cross-sectional shape of the tooth?

 

Don

Sorry I meant slender not thin, so I mean the side it is photographed and not the side that it is in the rock, maybe thickness is the correct ward. I don't know though if again I said it correctly, English is my third language so sometimes I get confused with this kind of things.

[Savvas]

12 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

Absolutely not Enchodus. This is mosasaur alright. And it also doesn't look like it was tampered with. So a good purchase.

 

There look to be two mosasaur teeth with roots in here. They don't look like Halisaurus to me. I'd say these are either Prognathodon sp. (possibly juvenile) or Eremiasaurus heterodontus. They don't look like the typical fat Prognathodon teeth we normally see because these are likely anterior teeth. It actually looks like there is also a fragment of the original jaw left in the matrix that's attached to the root of the more complete tooth. So it might be worth it to prep this piece a little.

 

There also seem to be several random fish bone fragments strewn about in the matrix, which is pretty typical for a piece such as this. That circle to the left of the more complete tooth, I think, can be one of two things. It could be a fish vertebra. Or it could be the underside of a third mosasaur tooth. One without root.

Thank you for your answer! It was very helpful. Though what could unidentified species mean in sellers description?

[Troodon]

7 minutes ago, Savvas said:

Thank you for your answer! It was very helpful. Though what could unidentified species mean in sellers description?

It means the seller was clueless in how to properly identify the tooth but does not mean its an undescribed species.

[Savvas]

56 minutes ago, LordTrilobite said:

Absolutely not Enchodus. This is mosasaur alright. And it also doesn't look like it was tampered with. So a good purchase.

 

There look to be two mosasaur teeth with roots in here. They don't look like Halisaurus to me. I'd say these are either Prognathodon sp. (possibly juvenile) or Eremiasaurus heterodontus. They don't look like the typical fat Prognathodon teeth we normally see because these are likely anterior teeth. It actually looks like there is also a fragment of the original jaw left in the matrix that's attached to the root of the more complete tooth. So it might be worth it to prep this piece a little.

 

There also seem to be several random fish bone fragments strewn about in the matrix, which is pretty typical for a piece such as this. That circle to the left of the more complete tooth, I think, can be one of two things. It could be a fish vertebra. Or it could be the underside of a third mosasaur tooth. One without root.

Sorry for asking but I am very new and completely clueless, how could I prep it? What tools should I use? 

[LordTrilobite]

25 minutes ago, Savvas said:

Sorry for asking but I am very new and completely clueless, how could I prep it? What tools should I use? 

Oh no, it's no trouble at all.

First off, if you're completely new to this, it might be a good idea to hold off on prepping this right now and maybe start on less nicer specimens. Maybe something like a single mosasaur tooth crown in matrix would be nice practice with less consequences if it goes wrong. It would give you the chance to get a bit of a feeling for the material.

 

As to what tools you should use and how you should approach prepping something like this...

Moroccan fossils like these are generally fairly soft, but luckily the martix is even softer most of the time. It's a bit like really tightly clumped sand. So once it gets loose it's fairly easy to clean. The tooth crowns will be the hardest material in the specimen. But they can also be quite brittle. The fish bones will likely be the most fragile.

I normally prep pieces like this using steel dental picks. And I just carefully scrape away the matrix bit by bit.

Magnification is pretty essential. Having good eyes helps. But there's only so much the human eye can see. Personally I always use a microscope when I can. But magnification glasses will also help a lot in this case.

 

Having a well lit working area is also very important so you can properly see every little detail.

These mosasaur fossils generally don't create that much dust. But it's always a good idea to use a dust mask as well as eye protection.

 

Then there's glue. Fossils are fragile and very often will need glue to hold them together. Superglue/Cyanoacrylate will do wonders and dries fast. The thin variant is great for stabilising fossils that are quite fragile. The big problem with this type of glue is that it doesn't allow for many mistakes since it dries to fast. On fossils like this I exclusively use Cyanoacrylate to stabilise them. I normally clean an area of a bone first, and then I stabilise it with glue. If it comes into contact with the matrix that will become much, much harder to remove.

 

Another type of glue with many fossil preppers use is B-72. It's less strong but it's reversible. So if you make a mistake it's not the end of the world.

 

And the last but not least thing you'll need, is patience, lots of patience. Prepping fossils takes a lot of time. It's also best to go slow as to not damage the fossil.

[snolly50]

LordTrilobite has already provided excellent guidance. I believe that the piece you have could be improved with minor prep. The granular matrix is easily worked. It just requires attention and care (and magnification, as stated, is your ally).  I use a pin vise ans carbide needles for this type of work, but dental picks would also certainly be appropriate. Even a sewing needle with a built-up tape "handle" to grasp between thumb and forefinger could be used. If it were mine, I would start with the area beneath the broken tooth and work to the left to see where the already visible bone leads. Then I would work down from the original start; always beginning where material is already exposed. Just a gentle scraping motion with the tool will suffice. What!? Is that a jaw fragment with a bit of root sticking out of the bottom!? Good luck, have fun; but beware; it's addictive.  

[Savvas]

5 hours ago, LordTrilobite said:

Oh no, it's no trouble at all.

First off, if you're completely new to this, it might be a good idea to hold off on prepping this right now and maybe start on less nicer specimens. Maybe something like a single mosasaur tooth crown in matrix would be nice practice with less consequences if it goes wrong. It would give you the chance to get a bit of a feeling for the material.

 

As to what tools you should use and how you should approach prepping something like this...

Moroccan fossils like these are generally fairly soft, but luckily the martix is even softer most of the time. It's a bit like really tightly clumped sand. So once it gets loose it's fairly easy to clean. The tooth crowns will be the hardest material in the specimen. But they can also be quite brittle. The fish bones will likely be the most fragile.

I normally prep pieces like this using steel dental picks. And I just carefully scrape away the matrix bit by bit.

Magnification is pretty essential. Having good eyes helps. But there's only so much the human eye can see. Personally I always use a microscope when I can. But magnification glasses will also help a lot in this case.

 

Having a well lit working area is also very important so you can properly see every little detail.

These mosasaur fossils generally don't create that much dust. But it's always a good idea to use a dust mask as well as eye protection.

 

Then there's glue. Fossils are fragile and very often will need glue to hold them together. Superglue/Cyanoacrylate will do wonders and dries fast. The thin variant is great for stabilising fossils that are quite fragile. The big problem with this type of glue is that it doesn't allow for many mistakes since it dries to fast. On fossils like this I exclusively use Cyanoacrylate to stabilise them. I normally clean an area of a bone first, and then I stabilise it with glue. If it comes into contact with the matrix that will become much, much harder to remove.

 

Another type of glue with many fossil preppers use is B-72. It's less strong but it's reversible. So if you make a mistake it's not the end of the world.

 

And the last but not least thing you'll need, is patience, lots of patience. Prepping fossils takes a lot of time. It's also best to go slow as to not damage the fossil.

Thank you very much for all the information. So using water for cleaning is it a good idea? Also can I use a brush to remove any dust from it or it could get scratched. Also how easily can you scratches a tooth by accident, if you toutch it with the dental tool would it make any damage on it? I started with ancient coin collecting and when it came on cleaning, even a small brush with a clothe could destroy the coin creating scratches, so I am really anctious with fossils as I dont know how  fragile they are!

[ynot]

34 minutes ago, Savvas said:

So using water for cleaning is it a good idea?

No, the matrix will fall apart if wet.

[Savvas]

8 hours ago, Troodon said:

It means the seller was clueless in how to properly identify the tooth but does not mean its an undescribed species.

What do you think about this one, thats not mine (yet) Dose it look real? This is the only photo that the seller gives.

[Randyw]

1 hour ago, ynot said:

No, the matrix will fall apart if wet.

+1! After I prepped out all the pieces I could find in my tooth in matrix I used water to dissolve the (I thought empty matrix) to make sure I had any little thing out and it dissolved rapidly! With a possible piece of jaw in there I wouldn’t risk it!

[Randyw]

My matrix after only soaking a little while. Although I did find these pieces in it afterwards! LOL!