Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I don't know whether I should have put this in the ID section instead, as I'm looking for some info and for help in sorting out what I've got, but not necessarily IDs per se. But it's also a sort of show-and-tell, so here goes. The info I'm trying to sort out has to do with the locations and formation/stages of some of the items. To help, I'll post the Ordovician correlation chart from the ICS and this other one from a paper on the Valongo (Portugal) site recently posted in the Documents section, showing the known soft-bodied sites of the Ordovician... The latter seems a little too tidy, with the deposits fitting exactly within the given stages, but maybe it will be of some help: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 OK, now the fossils... Pls let me know of any corrections or additional info. The sellers don't always provide accurate or complete info and I've been trying to piece it all together. First, Discophyllum berberum (formerly Eldonia berbera) Upper Ordo. - Lower Rawtheyan (Upper Katian) (Uppermost?) Upper Ktaoua Fm. - is this equivalent to the Upper Tiouririne Fm in the chart above? 1,2) near Erfoud/Tafilalt, Elkaid Errami, Morocco 3) Mecissi/Msissi/M'cissi (between Alnif and Rissani) --who knows if these locations are correct 3: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 More from the Upper Ordovician: Edrioasteroid: Spinadiscus lefebvrei U. Ordo - Ashgillian/Katian Ktaoua / Tiouririne Fm? (apparently the Tiouririne and others are formations/members within the Ktaoua Group, correct?) "Tafilalt Biota"? Mecissi, Elkaid Errami (El Qaid Errami) Edrioasteroid: Euryeschatia reboulorum (Tafilalt Biota?) Upper Ordo. - what stage? (Upper?) Ktaoua or Tiouririne Fm? Erfoud area 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Machaeridian worm: Plumulites sp. + conularid + ? Upper Ordo. - what stage? Ktaoua or Tiouririne Fm? Kaid Errami 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Here's an oddity (sponge?) with an Edrioasteroid (Spinadiscus lefebvrei?) Same info as Spinadiscus above? (Ktaoua/Tiouririne Fm, Mecissi?) The back of one half has a partial starfish and more edrio's: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Eocrinoids: Ascocystites sp. U. Ordo - Lower Caradoc (Sandbian) Lower Ktaoua - Izegguirene Fm? Bou Nemrou? Elkaid Errami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Trilobite: Symphysops sp. U. Ordo. - Katian Lower Ktaoua Fm. Tifrit n'Ougnaou? Jbel Tijarfaïouine area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Now I'm fairly certain the following are from the Lower Ordovician (Fezouata): Trilobite: Asaphellus aff. fezouatensis L. Ordo. - Lower Arenig/Floian Upper Fezouata Fm. Draa Valley, N. of Zagora, SE Morocco (has had some crude reconstruction, of course!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Carpoid: Cothurnocystis elizae Lower Ordo. (what stage?) Fezouata? Zagora region (Draa Valley?) Lingulocystis sp. L. Ordo - Arenigian Fezouata Fm. Jbel Tizagaouine Graptolite: Clonograptus sp. L. Ordo - Lower Arenigian Fezouata Fm? Zagora 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Wrangellian said: Trilobite: Symphysops sp. No idea of stratig. or accurate location Upper Ordovician, and fairly emblematic of other blind bugs found in the region. Lower Ktaoua Fm, Tifrit n ' Ougnaou from the Jbel Tijarfaïouine region: "Trilobites found in the Jbel Tijarfaïouine have strong affinities with the fauna of equivalent age (Katian) from the Bohdalec Formation of the Prague Basin (Czech Republic). [...] These findings suggest palaeogeographic connections between the Perunica microcontinent (including Bohemia) and Western Gondwana during the Upper Ordovician." Lebrun,, P. (2018) Fossils of Morocco: Volume 1. Emblematic Localities from the Palaeozoic of the Anti·Atlas. Les Editions du Piat, p. 139. 1 ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Thanks Kane, I'll add that to the post and my label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kane said: Upper Ordovician, and fairly emblematic of other blind bugs found in the region. Lower Ktaoua Fm, Tifrit n ' Ougnaou from the Jbel Tijarfaïouine region: "Trilobites found in the Jbel Tijarfaïouine have strong affinities with the fauna of equivalent age (Katian) from the Bohdalec Formation of the Prague Basin (Czech Republic). [...] These findings suggest palaeogeographic connections between the Perunica microcontinent (including Bohemia) and Western Gondwana during the Upper Ordovician." Lebrun,, P. (2018) Fossils of Morocco: Volume 1. Emblematic Localities from the Palaeozoic of the Anti·Atlas. Les Editions du Piat, p. 139. What is the "Tifrit n'Ougnaou" part of this - a location within the Jbel Tijarfaiouine region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 That's correct -- a collecting locality in the area. There are a few others relatively nearby, some of which are more represented by echinoderms. ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 Is it a certainty or a good bet that mine is from that same spot rather than one of the more echino-dominated ones, can you tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 I'm sorry, but I can't say for sure as none of my current roster of sources indicate this with more precision. I just know that it has been fairly active since 2008, and that some finds of scientific significance have been made there. The difference between this collecting locality and the others is a matter of a few kilometres, so not too widely spread out. ...How to Philosophize with a Hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share Posted June 7, 2019 OK then that's good enough for me! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Wrangellian said: The info I'm trying to sort out has to do with the locations and formation/stages of some of the items. To help, I'll post the Ordovician correlation chart from the ICS and this other one from a paper on the Valongo (Portugal) site recently posted in the Documents section, showing the known soft-bodied sites of the Ordovician... The latter seems a little too tidy, with the deposits fitting exactly within the given stages, but maybe it will be of some help Any help? 2 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Wrangellian said: First, Discophyllum berberum (formerly Eldonia berbera) Upper Ordo. - Lower Rawtheyan (Upper Katian) (Uppermost?) Upper Ktaoua Fm. - is this equivalent to the Upper Tiouririne Fm in the chart above? 1,2) near Erfoud/Tafilalt, Elkaid Errami, Morocco 3) Mecissi/Msissi/M'cissi (between Alnif and Rissani) --who knows if these locations are correct? As you can see, the Upper Tiouririne Fm. lies between the Lower and Upper Ktaoua Fm. The locations are probably correct. The spellings vary considerably as it is very difficult to translate Darija Arabic or Amazight (Berber) into standard English. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Wrangellian said: More from the Upper Ordovician: Edrioasteroid: Spinadiscus lefebvrei U. Ordo - Ashgillian/Katian Ktaoua / Tiouririne Fm? (apparently the Tiouririne and others are formations/members within the Ktaoua Group, correct?) "Tafilalt Biota"? Mecissi, Elkaid Errami (El Qaid Errami) Edrioasteroid: Euryeschatia reboulorum (Tafilalt Biota?) Upper Ordo. - what stage? (Upper?) Ktaoua or Tiouririne Fm? Erfoud area. Those are wonderful. The Ktaoua Group comprises the Lower Ktaoua Fm, the Tiouririne Fm. and the Upper Ktaoua Fm. The Tafilalt Biota is the name given to the organisms found in the Lagerstatte in this region so applies to your specimens, I would think. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 Thanks Adam... The Tafilalt Biota is the Upper Ordo stuff, right? (not middle or lower) That chart helps. Where is the Lower Tiouririne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connorp Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 20 hours ago, Wrangellian said: Eocrinoids: Ascocystites sp. U. Ordo - Lower Caradoc (Sandbian) Lower Ktaoua - Izegguirene Fm? Bou Nemrou? Elkaid Errami A popular fossil website lists very similar specimens as coming from near Kaid Errami from the Kataoua Formation. Many specimens from our favorite auction site list the same town (?), but with no mention of a formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Excellent and fascinating samples! Sorry I can't help with any info, but thanks for showing and telling anyway. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Wrangellian said: Thanks Adam... The Tafilalt Biota is the Upper Ordo stuff, right? (not middle or lower) That chart helps. Where is the Lower Tiouririne? Yes, Upper Ordovician. The Lower Tiouririne Formation is now a part of the Lower Kataoua Formation and is called the Lower Tiouririne Member. 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 16 hours ago, Ludwigia said: Excellent and fascinating samples! Sorry I can't help with any info, but thanks for showing and telling anyway. Thanks, I'm rather proud of myself for getting these... I thought it would be a good idea to put them all together in a showoff thread which can also serve as an informative thread once all the info comes in.. I only wish the collector of those edrio's had retained the counterparts as well, as they would have shown the other side of the organism. Even if they were broken, I can't imagine that the pieces could not be glued back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 18 hours ago, connorp said: A popular fossil website lists very similar specimens as coming from near Kaid Errami from the Kataoua Formation. Many specimens from our favorite auction site list the same town (?), but with no mention of a formation. OK, thanks, I'll put both as possibilities and hope a clear answer comes along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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