Help Me Out

[I_know_nothing]

After a little research I think this is coprolite. Rock on one side and something that resembles poop on the other side. See next post for reverse side. Size is 1 1/4 inch by 3/4 inch by 1/4 inch

[doushantuo]

Hiya, Hope

Exactly how much research did you do?*

*DEFINITELY NOT meant ironically, BTW.

And where was this found?

Personally speaking, I don't exactly think it screams "coprolite".

 

[I_know_nothing]

Well if you have seen anything else I've ever posted You would know that A. it was most likely found in Indiana and B. I have stated that I am no fossil expert. My research is limited as I have a job, a family, a LIFE. 

I found this web page by chance and have (up until now) found everyone to be very helpful and informative in their comments. The only useful thing I gleaned from your comment was, nothing. 

Just so you know, saying something sarcastic then following up with "I'm not trying to be sarcastic" doesn't work. If you can't provide some useful knowledge in reference to my post please don't post a comment. I'm here for help in learning. Not to be belittled. Have a great day

[Kane]

I would say this is a concretion, but let me tag our coprolite experts to weigh in @GeschWhat @Carl

 

Hopefully you won’t give up on us. Whatever you find and post here, our mission is to help. Expertise level is no barrier to participation as we have members ranging from absolute beginners to seasoned paleontologists. Having a passion and interest in fossils is all anyone needs here. 

 

And this serves as a good reminder to any of our longer standing members to refrain from sarcastic comments, even those made in jest as intention is easily lost over an internet forum. Such attempts at humour are perhaps best left between members who already have developed a solid rapport — not with new members who are making inquiries in earnest.

[caldigger]

I will leave my normal comments out on this one. 

But I would likely agree with the concretion assessment Kane has provided.

[digit]

Do you have any additional information on where in Indiana this item was found? I believe Carboniferous age concretions (like those found in Mazon Creek in Illinois) extend over into parts of Indiana. Your item bears a bit of resemblance to the iron rich sideride concretions found in the Mazon Creek area (about an hour SW of Chicago). Many of those concretions formed around distinctive items like fern leaves or shrimp (or rarely things like fishes or the famous Tully Monster) but some are a bit like a concretion version of a Rorschach test where you can get yourself to believe they are any number of things. Quite common are the fossilized jellyfish, Essexella asherae, which fossil hunters refer to as 'blobs' because of their usual lack of detail. Many of these indeterminate looking concretions contain fossilized poop (coprolites). The few coprolite concretions I've seen have a bit of a different texture so I don't believe that is what your item is (though I am far from an expert in these concretions). If it were to have come from Mazon Creek itself, we have several members here on the forum who are very familiar with material from this location and they could give a reasonably authoritative response. Possibly, if we learn a bit more about where your find came from we might be able to narrow down the geological age and have a better idea. Even with that additional information, items without distinguishing features may be too difficult to identify (or even verify that they represent fossilized material).

 

If you live in the Indiana area, do a search on this forum for "St. Leon" as it is a very interesting fossil outcrop in south central Indiana where there is some really nice (and easy to make out) fossil material and hash plates (packed full of fossils). Would be a fun stop if you have kids of the age who would appreciate such an outing. The shoulder is wide enough so you can park well off the road and you can safely poke around the road cut without venturing anywhere near the passing traffic.

 

Welcome to the forum--lots and lots of fossil info here (and a diverse group of members).

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[I_know_nothing]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I am an absolute, know nothing about fossils, beginner but find them fascinating.  So I am likely going to be wrong in my guess work. I dont mind being corrected. I welcome it actually. I would prefer someone to tell me the correct answer so I can have that knowledge myself rather than thinking wrong. 

This seems like a very helpful group of people. I wouldnt shy away from the site just because my feathers got ruffled (evidently unintentionally) by one individual. I'm just trying to learn a few things. Seems like the best place to do that is right here. 

In answer to your question about location I am in the north eastern part of indiana. Closer to Ohio and michigan. About 30 miles either direction to the state line. My kids are grown but grandkids are of the perfect age. 

This is the other one I found. Same as the other it has rock casing on one side and something else on this side. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by I_know_nothing
More info

[digit]

Others may add their opinions but to my eye I'm not seeing any identifiable fossil in the interior of this concretion. Layered concretions (especially when split) are always able to attract the eye of a rockhound--they are inherently more interesting than your average run of the mill rock. While I do not see anything in these, you certainly have proven that you've got the curiosity and motivation to be gathering rocks that look interesting to you. You've now hooked into a good forum with a diverse wealth of information that will aid an interested party to more fossil knowledge.

 

The St. Leon roadcut is just north of St. Leon in southeastern Indiana a few miles north of town. Here is a Google Map link that will show just how extensive this roadcut is (you can see the levels that were cut back quite easily from the satellite view). If the grandkids are enjoying their summer break and would like to join you for an outing where they will be guaranteed to find some interesting Ordovician fossils (somewhere between 485 and 443 million years old) then you might consider jumping in the car for a roadtrip.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/jr3ArawwkuTzFqg49

 

If you do make it out to this site, take lots of photos and add a post to the Fossil Hunting Trips section of this forum. Members from around the world enjoy seeing where our various members are getting out to and what they are finding. If you post some nice clear photos of your finds you'll get some answers here to identify them (several members know this formation well). Looking forward to seeing your future fossil hunts here on the forum.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Mark Kmiecik]

I'm thinking concretion also. Don't see anything that would definitively identify this as a coprolite. Coprolites have a "poop" shape (really, I'm not trying to be funny) as you will find if you just Google "rabbit poop" or "deer poop" or "bear poop", et cetera, and if you Google enough poop you'll begin to get a feel for it. Many extinct creatures had their own poop shape that is distinctive and identifiable at least to genus if not specie. For instance, fossil shark poop in many cases has a spiral shape to it. Also, fossil poop will often contain remnants of what that meal consisted, like shell bits or undigested plant material. And coprolites will seldom (read as almost never) be encased in a thick wall as these specimens.

I hope that's helpful.

 

As a side note -- are you using the camera on your phone? If so, you can go into the "light" settings for the camera to lose that "glare" which does impede ID to an extant, and don't forget to wipe the lens clean before you shoot. Those will make a big improvement in the quality of the images.

[doushantuo]

Hope, WHEN I SAY I am NOT being sarcastic/ironic, it means exactly that.

I'd like to "hear" you say you believe me, as it would mean a lot to me.

 

 

 

 

[Peat Burns]

Hope, 

 

If you want to take your grandkids to a GREAT PLACE to find fossils (essentially impossible not to find fossils there), take them to Paulding County Community Fossil Gardens in Paulding, OH. That shouldn't be too far from you. There's a parking lot a portable outhouse, and the kids can keep whatever they find.  You can learn more about it with an internet search.

[doushantuo]

[digit]

1 hour ago, Peat Burns said:

take them to Paulding County Community Fossil Gardens in Paulding, OH

Yup. Great suggestion!

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[ynot]

10 hours ago, Hope_Mcdonald said:

Well if you have seen anything else I've ever posted You would know

There are a lot of requests for ID from members old and new. We can not be expected to remember where each person collects their fossils. It is important to include that information in each ID request.

 

I agree with the non fossil concretion for Your rocks.

Good luck on the hunt.

[Randyw]

12 minutes ago, ynot said:

There are a lot of requests for ID from members old and new. We can not be expected to remember where each person collects their fossils. It is important to include that information in each ID request.

Also a lot of our members travel a lot or get fossils from multiple suppliers so they post items that they have found in some cases from all over the world. So it’s helpful to give us as much info as possible. I’ve read several of @doushantuo posts and from what I’ve seen and know of him I’m sure he meant no sarcasm or rebuke in his post. So welcome to the site and keep asking questions! It’s the best way to learn! We’ll have you knowledgeable  and up to speed in no time!

[ClearLake]

@Peat Burns beat me to it (as he often does) but he is absolutely correct, a trip over to Paulding might be great for you. Given your location, and seeing the multiple posts you have done, it is likely you are getting your finds from the glacial till that is prevalent in the area (in fact about the only rock in the area). This can be challenging for fossil hunting as they are relatively sparse, are very weathered when found, and exactly where they have originally come from can be difficult to determine. A place like Paulding can be much more rewarding and educational. Glad you are finding fossils interesting and welcome to the forum. 

[GeschWhat]

Hi Hope!

 

First let me say welcome to the forum. I have not been very active on the forum as of late. Secondly, I love, love, love that you even considered coprolite as a possibility. It is hard for me to tell what you have there since the photos are a little light. I am not very familiar with Indiana fossils. I don't (yet) have any coprolites from your state. If the Mazon Creek type concretions extend into your area as suggested by @digit, it is possible that you could find coprolites surrounded by a reddish concretionary material similar to this. This is an example of a Mazon Creek carnivore coprolite from the Carboniferous. Notice this example is flakier than yours. The coprolite is much softer than the siderite concretion that surrounds it. If I remember correctly, all of the Carboniferous coprolites I have seen that are surrounded by concretion are similar. I am away from home, so these photos are the best I can do for now. If your specimens are more golden in color on the interior, I would lean more toward concretion. You could try lightly scratching the interior stone lightly with an X-acto blade. If it is very soft and feels slightly waxy, it could be a coprolite. If it feels more gritty, it is an iron concretion. I hope this helps. 

 

Poop IS the best!

[Carl]

All I can do is agree with Lori. Spot on.

[digit]

Yup. Thanks, Lori!

 

She's got the scoop on poop.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[caldigger]

Why Lori, I'm surprised at you for not suggesting a good healthy lick test! 

[Sberebit]

12 hours ago, ClearLake said:

Given your location, and seeing the multiple posts you have done, it is likely you are getting your finds from the glacial till that is prevalent in the area (in fact about the only rock in the area). This can be challenging for fossil hunting as they are relatively sparse, are very weathered when found, and exactly where they have originally come from can be difficult to determine.

Hey Hope! Welcome to the brutal world of trying to find fossils in Northern Indiana! While I have found some decent fossils here in South Bend, IN the majority of them are as @ClearLake noted are weathered when found. I have been lucky enough to find a storm water ditch cutting through the land to the St. Joseph river. It has opened up a BOAT LOAD of fossils dropped off from the good folks up north. When you find an area like this it can be a lot of fun looking for all types of fossils! The problem, however, is the condition and where and when they are from. It is still a lot of fun though. Good luck in your hunt!

[I_know_nothing]

Thank you @ClearLake and @Sberebit both very much. I guess I should have followed the guidelines when I posted a little closer. If I had it might have made this go smoother. Everyone has been helpful though to the new special needs kid (not meant to poke fun at anyone but myself) on the block.  I have a couple more things I'd like to post to ask about but dont want anyone to say it's aother rock idiot...

[Randyw]

2 minutes ago, Hope_Mcdonald said:

Thank you  I'd like to post to ask about but dont want anyone to say it's aother rock idiot...

Post away! We may say it’s another rock but that happens sometimes! And how will you know if you dont ask? Come on! We’ll be gentle!

[JohnJ]

17 minutes ago, Hope_Mcdonald said:

I have a couple more things I'd like to post to ask about but dont want anyone to say it's aother rock idiot...

 

Hope, I know that might be a common occurrence elsewhere online; but on TFF we try to maintain a more civilized standard.  As Randy said, "post away!"   

[Mark Kmiecik]

22 minutes ago, Hope_Mcdonald said:

I have a couple more things I'd like to post to ask about but dont want anyone to say it's aother rock idiot...

I'm ready anytime you are. We eagerly await the challenge. It may be a rock like I've never seen before -- remember, people who don't live where you do don't see the kind of rocks you get to see. What's everyday and boring to you is different and interesting to many others.