Claudiosaurus preparation

[sergecedrick]

Hi all,

 

I have in my collection, two small complete Claudiosaurus in matrix skeletons, and one round concretion which I believe to contain a larger Claudiosaurus (yes, I know some may be skeptical). 

 

I am trying the freeze and thaw method to expose him (or her), and had a set back, as a section broke off at the edge, and another on the right edge. It is a large concretion.. about a foot diameter by 4 inches... just so you know the scale. 

 

The matrix looks to be more fragile then what I have seen in other video's.. ie, a heavy hammer strke would likely fragment it into many piece. 

 

Underneath the corner section which broke off, you can clearly see what I believe to be vertebrae, though the cleave from the freeze thaw didn't really cleave it in half.. it seemed to cleave in sections, not following the fossil. The right crack is removable, and there isn't any fossil visible under that section.. but it created a nice 'T' that could be chiseled down. The section I'm holding in my hand has split with the fossil on both sides, which is what I was hoping it was going to do the entire way..

 

The good news is, that the broken off piece has exposed more 'territory' for water to permeate along the fossil natural cleavage, I believe.

 

Those with expertise here. Should I continue to soak several days, and then freeze again.. or, at this point.. hammer and chisel? I am afraid to try anything at this point.. but think the freeze and thaw least risky. 

 

I think this is quite a valuable fossil potentially. I have attached a photo of the concretion, and his 'little brother' one of my Claudio skeletons. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by sergecedrick
Fix wording

[gigantoraptor]

Looks more like a typical Barasaurus than to a Claudiosaurus to me. The Claudiosaurus I have seen have way Longer limbs. The skull also looks more Barasaurus to me.

 

I cannot help you with the preparation or possible ID of the unprepped one, but good luck on the prep and looking forward to see it.

[Fossil-Hound]

I agree that the leg does match that of a Barasaurus.

[Natalie81]

I agree with gigantoraptor, does legs are too short to be Claudiosaurus. The neck is also longer by Claudiosaurus. 

How is the matrix? If the matrix is what I think it is, de bones will be softer than the matrix and I would NOT recommend to do this prep job with a hammer. 

I did once a preparation on a piece of Barasaurus, it's a delicate work. 

Good luck and nice pieces by the way, I would love to see the results 

[sergecedrick]

Hi Natalie81. This belonged to my father, and has sentimental value. There isn't anyone here I have found with experience in removing the fossil. I know you are in Belgium... any chance you know anyone in Canada who might be for hire to do this? 

[sergecedrick]

Anyone available who would be interested in prepping the fossil?

 

[Natalie81]

52 minutes ago, sergecedrick said:

Hi Natalie81. This belonged to my father, and has sentimental value. There isn't anyone here I have found with experience in removing the fossil. I know you are in Belgium... any chance you know anyone in Canada who might be for hire to do this? 

Hello, if it has sentimental value and you have no experience, giving them to a preparator is a good idea. Also this specimens are really hard to get, so treasure them. I don't know a preparator from Canada, but there are some good specialists here on the forum and maybe sending it to them would be a possibility? 

Natalie 

[Mark Kmiecik]

22 hours ago, sergecedrick said:

I am trying the freeze and thaw method to expose him (or her), and had a set back, as a section broke off at the edge, and another on the right edge. It is a large concretion.. about a foot diameter by 4 inches... just so you know the scale. 

How long did you soak it before freezing? If the water didn't soak in far enough it would explain why the edges split apart but not the middle. You must let it soak long enough for the water to permeate the whole thing. Otherwise it cracks only as far as the water made it. How long it needs to soak depends on the porosity of the matrix. For a piece that size of medium porosity I would say about 3 weeks. If it looks like it will fall apart into lots of smaller pieces at this point, I recommend not attempting additional freeze/thaw -- it will create two to three times as many pieces. Trust me, I've restored some hundred-plus piece Mazon Creek 3D jigsaw puzzles. The less puzzle pieces involved the better the result.

 

A professional preparator is a good idea.

[sergecedrick]

Yes. I agree with hiring a pro. I am in Toronto.. are any pro's fairly close by who I could hire to do this? Thank you for your info.. Are you available/interested?

 

 

[Mark Kmiecik]

2 minutes ago, sergecedrick said:

Yes. I agree with hiring a pro. I am in Toronto.. are any pro's fairly close by who I could hire to do this? Thank you for your info.. Are you available/interested?

 

 

I do not have the skill or tools to do this level of prep work. Hang on for a day or two. There's 28,000+ members on this forum. I'm sure some of them can either do the prep or know someone who can. They do not all view the forum every day. Give them some time to see your post and check around for someone who can. You could also check with someone at the nearest natural history museum like maybe the Royal in Toronto? I'm sure there's someone in North America who can get the job done. Don't rush it. Haste makes waste.

[sergecedrick]

Thank you Mark. I have tried the ROM, and found a person there with the experience, but alas, they are not permitted to work on private projects. I would appreciate anyone on here who may have interest, and experience in doing this. THanks again for taking the time to reply.. much appreciate your kindness..

 

[Randyw]

I wonder if @RJB or @Ptychodus04 would have any ideas....

[Mark Kmiecik]

12 minutes ago, sergecedrick said:

Thank you Mark. I have tried the ROM, and found a person there with the experience, but alas, they are not permitted to work on private projects. I would appreciate anyone on here who may have interest, and experience in doing this. THanks again for taking the time to reply.. much appreciate your kindness..

 

The person you spoke with at the ROM knows people who can. Did you ask for a recommendation?

[sergecedrick]

Yes, the person I spoke to.. a lady.. suggested fossil shops etc.. outside of the ROM. 

[Ptychodus04]

I can help you with the prep if you’re ok shipping the piece to Texas for me to work on. I believe @Malcolmt is close to you. Not sure if this is his cup of tea or not.

[Randyw]

@sergecedrick there you go! Just took a little patience! I’ve seen pictures of ptychodus04 work and it looks really good! The mans an artist with rock and fossils.

[Ptychodus04]

7 hours ago, Randyw said:

@sergecedrick there you go! Just took a little patience! I’ve seen pictures of ptychodus04 work and it looks really good! The mans an artist with rock and fossils.

[RJB]

  I looked at this early yesterday morning and could tell it would be a tuff and delicate prep job with lots of time involved.   I myself would not be interested in this prep job simply cause I have too many things already to work on.  My vote would be Ptychodus04.  He has the knowledge, the patience and the tools for this kind of prep.  Good luck

 

RB

[Malcolmt]

I sent you a PM with my phone number I probably live 30 minutes from you. Not sure I am interested without seeing it in person . Left you my phone number, give me a call . If you pop over you can see some of my modest collection regardless

[sergecedrick]

Thank you all for your kind replies!

 

[Mark Kmiecik]

7 hours ago, sergecedrick said:

Thank you all for your kind replies!

 

Just a bit of patience goes a long way.

[Malcolmt]

Serge popped over to my house this afternoon and we had a good visit. I think he was a bit overwhelmed by the volume of rock in my basement.

 

We agreed after looking at the critter in the 2nd picture  under a scope and a quick prep test on a safe spot that this barasaurus (if that is what they turn out to be, it is actually too soon to tell) will not benefit from any further preparation. It is extremely fragile and is already very aesthetically pleasing to look at. Perhaps it might benefit from some dilute vinac in acetone to consolidate bits that are flaking off. We are going to think about that a bit more at l future date

 

After a quick test with a Pferd air scribe using a super fine stylus under a scope we came to the conclusion that the concretion in the first picture is very preparable. The critter is much larger than the one in the 2nd picture. The concretion itself  is in a number of pieces, with about 5 of them actually having parts of the critter in them. I currently have all the exposed bone absorbing dilute vinac multiple times as it is fragile to the extreme and some of the internal bone is powdering. For a prep like this you are constantly stopping to let the newly exposed bone absorb a very dilute vinac solution (in acetone). About 95% of this type of prep will be done with a super fine Pferd air scribe always under a scope. Air abrasion even at a low PSI <15 and sodium bicarbonate is extremely risky. I will likely only do a quick final matrix clean at the end with this type of PSI and media using a .010 or 015 nozzle

 

When the concretion fractured about 20 mostly small pieces of bone fractured off. Fortunately Serge carefully put them in a zip lock bag which I now have. I have already been able to put the two largest fragments back in their original place on the skeleton.Each of the 5 pieces will most likely be prepped separately then reassembled at the end of the preparation process.

 

Serge has given me permission to post some pics in this thread as the preparation proceeds

[Randyw]

Cool! Can’t wait to see your progress!

[Natalie81]

5 hours ago, Malcolmt said:

Serge popped over to my house this afternoon and we had a good visit. I think he was a bit overwhelmed by the volume of rock in my basement.

 

We agreed after looking at the critter in the 2nd picture  under a scope and a quick prep test on a safe spot that this barasaurus (if that is what they turn out to be, it is actually too soon to tell) will not benefit from any further preparation. It is extremely fragile and is already very aesthetically pleasing to look at. Perhaps it might benefit from some dilute vinac in acetone to consolidate bits that are flaking off. We are going to think about that a bit more at l future date

 

After a quick test with a Pferd air scribe using a super fine stylus under a scope we came to the conclusion that the concretion in the first picture is very preparable. The critter is much larger than the one in the 2nd picture. The concretion itself  is in a number of pieces, with about 5 of them actually having parts of the critter in them. I currently have all the exposed bone absorbing dilute vinac multiple times as it is fragile to the extreme and some of the internal bone is powdering. For a prep like this you are constantly stopping to let the newly exposed bone absorb a very dilute vinac solution (in acetone). About 95% of this type of prep will be done with a super fine Pferd air scribe always under a scope. Air abrasion even at a low PSI <15 and sodium bicarbonate is extremely risky. I will likely only do a quick final matrix clean at the end with this type of PSI and media using a .010 or 015 nozzle

 

When the concretion fractured about 20 mostly small pieces of bone fractured off. Fortunately Serge carefully put them in a zip lock bag which I now have. I have already been able to put the two largest fragments back in their original place on the skeleton.Each of the 5 pieces will most likely be prepped separately then reassembled at the end of the preparation process.

 

Serge has given me permission to post some pics in this thread as the preparation proceeds

It will be prepping with glue in the other hand, like I thought, the bones are softer than the matrix. Good luck! 

[Malcolmt]

I would term prepping with dilute vinac on bone that has a desire to crumble more of a consolidation process than a gluing process. The idea is to get the bone to absorb the vinac throughout rather than use a glue that would really only coat the surface and get into the cracks. The vinac solution I am using for this is 5% vinac and 95% acetone. At the end on the process the bone is somewhat internally plasticized and becomes quite stable. Vinac has been used forever in the preservation of bone at museums because of its reversibility and the fact that it does not discolor with age. Once exposed to air these types of fossil preservation do not tend to do well with humidity and the vinac does a pretty good job at providing protection. I personally find that the vinac absorbs at little better than butvar which I also use as a reversible glue.