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Million Pound Mushroom

Million Pound Mushroom?

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Million Pound Mushroom

Hi everyone,

 

I'm a complete novice here, I purchased this strange rock as a souvenir when travelling through Mongolia and Russia if was bought from Nomads who forage the area close to lake Baikal on the Mongolia side of the border. It strangely drew me to it as it was sort of hidden under some other prettier looking rocks. The internet doesn't seem to say it's likely to be a mushroom, although as I'm sure you will agree from the photos  it's easy to believe it is.

 

I'd appreciate anyone expertise and thoughts anyone might have on Mushrooms or anything similar they have seen before?

Thank you for your time and interest.

15642590801121009848571990172347.jpg

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Million Pound Mushroom

More images of the million pound mushroom?? 

15642607645801109804572704158090.jpg

15642607918507764492482865682068.jpg

15642608124781887018525552272537.jpg

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Million Pound Mushroom

15642609267101358079440770100546.jpg

156426094969032882197809162376.jpg

15642609660917430189828988496999.jpg

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Rayminazzi

These should probably be in a reply to the original post

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Million Pound Mushroom

15642610121626527089297269607943.jpg

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DPS Ammonite

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Fossil mushrooms are very rare. We need to see some identifiable features unique to mushrooms such as gills. 

 

See paper that says that only ten mushroom fossils have been found. One was an impression/compression; the rest were in amber nodules. Verified authentic 3 D fossil mushrooms not in amber are unknown. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/115m-year-old-mushroom-oldest-fossilized-fungus-180963634/

 

I found a Fossil Forum post that shows a purported recent fossilized mushroom. The mushroom may have been placed in a calcium carbonate spring by a human.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/96083-fungo/&tab=comments#comment-1061340

 

 

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Million Pound Mushroom

Yes you are probably right, I'm a complete novice any advice on how to add these to the original post would be appreciated?

Thanks for the articles I will have a read.

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abyssunder

It looks geological wonder, to me, but how light is in weight comparable to a recent Ganoderma ?

Does it float in freshwater?

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Million Pound Mushroom

Thanks DOS ammonite, item 15 and 16 look a little similar on the Fraas 1910 images, id say it's more like a button mushroom which I dont think would have gills showing, although it does look a bit amber like inside the stem and where the nipple on top is protruding. I'm curious to find out what it is even if it's not a mushroom. 

 

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Rockwood

It's either a priceless one of a kind mushroom fossil or a concretion. ;)

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JohnJ

@Million Pound Mushroom

I have merged your topics for continuity.

 

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Million Pound Mushroom
8 hours ago, abyssunder said:

It looks geological wonder, to me, but how light is in weight comparable to a recent Ganoderma ?

Does it float in freshwater?

Hi, thank you for your interest, it's just under 0.5 ounces in weight and sinks like a stone in water.

1564293533849781180092661671320.jpg

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Million Pound Mushroom
7 hours ago, JohnJ said:

@Million Pound Mushroom

I have merged your topics for continuity.

 

Thank you so much, that's a massive help JohnJ.

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Million Pound Mushroom

Being an open minded Scientist, I appreciate that mushroom fossils maybe non existent or that they are extremely rare, if we find reasons to believe they are not present in the fossil record then we surely do not focus on looking for them or justifying the possibility which further reduces that probability of finding them. Having done a bit of research, mushrooms contains potassium, copper, phosphorous and selenium, would these helpful facilitate fossilisation? Most organic lifeforms that decompose quickly seem to be carbon based, now with Mushrooms being high in Nitrogen would this be of any benefit in the process? Mushrooms I think also contain Chitin which in high concentrations is extremely stable and tough.This article suggests that Chitin can be fossilised? I appreciate any input and expertise to satisfy my curiosity. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep03497

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Rockwood

It may be helpful to note that fungi are actually fairly well (considering) represented in the fossil record. The fruiting bodies known as mushrooms, not so much.

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Million Pound Mushroom

Good response Digit, thank you for your insight and knowledge. I most certainly am open minded to my item more probably being a concretion, on the flip side rare things are less probable of being found and highly probably formed under extremely special circumstances hence their rarity. I can see the resemblance to the concretion images and point being made. I'm aware of pareidolia although I wouldn't particularly want to spell it after a few pints! Given you have seen many concretions it's also only a small step to come to the conclusion that concretions are the norm for someone could be seen rather than the extremely rare mushroom option, could it not? Visual identification alone to verify or dismiss a possibility is therefore flawed. The huner gatherer would not have just left the mushroom rock and took mushrooms merely by sight would he? I take your point about the amount of Chitin present in a mushroom and 92% as fact, however that raises a question of shrinkage during fossilisation. Could Organic material, or dry up before fossilisation? If so would MPM be 8% of it's original size? Should I be calling it the giant million pound mushroom?! Whilst we agree Einstein probably did use intuition and imagination, he must have had total belief in order to evolve his theories. Given no one else had them, would this not constitute blind belief? Did he listen and take heed of conventional thinking person who doubted his thoughts to stop pursuing possibilities through to the conclusion? He therefore must have had blind belief in the possibility of his thoughts in achieving what others would call the impossible, unless he could categorically prove otherwise unless he just knew? (highly improbable).  Humour me here, intuition lead me to the stone and imagination led me here, if I'm proven to be right then I will change my username here to Fossil Einstein! Evolutionary change is a fair point, my shrinkage theory would suggest an evolutionary downsizing over time. Now is that possible, are there any other examples of this happening? With all due respect the evolutionary comment would also assume its actually a prehistoric button mushroom, truth is we dont know what type of mushroom it was and what it could evolve into yet (and we may never) as mushrooms have not been found in the fossil record often enough to determine a theory as far back as is theorised that mushrooms have lived for. Your response raises the fact that what I'd really like to know is that if you throw conventional thinking theory and debate aside, is there a bonefide scientific way to test the now "potentially giant million pound mushroom" to find out and determine exactly what it is for sure? 

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Randyw

Cut it open

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Kane

Some kind of tomography/CT scan machine might be able to peer “inside.” If it lacks mycological structure, then it is not a mushroom. I would say take it to your nearest earth sciences department and have them look at it in hand.

 

As for shrinkage, I would think significant desiccation would result in displaying wrinkling of the surface, which I’m not seeing here.

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Million Pound Mushroom

:zzzzscratchchin:

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JohnBrewer
29 minutes ago, Million Pound Mushroom said:

is there a bonefide scientific way to test the now "potentially giant million pound mushroom" to find out and determine exactly what it is for sure? 

I think the best way to determine what you have is to take it to a museum so they can physically inspect it. However I think, as others here believe, that you have a cool looking concretion. :) 

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digit

If you are a reverse-skeptic and wish concrete proof that your item is a common (but interestingly shaped) concretion rather than a unique (in the true sense of that word) fossilized mushroom (fungal fruiting body), then your best means to do so is exactly as Randy so succinctly stated above--get it to a rock saw and slice it open. The lack of any internal structures resembling any part of a mushroom will have to be your proof--at the expense of sacrificing a really cute mushroom-shaped concretion.

 

I would not characterize Einstein as a person with "blind faith" in any of the conclusions that his calculations led him. He was able to think of space-time in a novel way which opened up many testable hypothesis (gravitational lensing) but he hated the concept of black holes though his calculations led him to postulate their existence (much later proved and recently "photographed"). Science does not work on blind faith it works on testable predictions.
 

36 minutes ago, Million Pound Mushroom said:

if I'm proven to be right then I will change my username here to Fossil Einstein!

If you are proven to be right and you have found an impossibly preserved petrified shroom, I will not only change my TFF username to "Fossil Einstein" but I'll legally change my real name to the same. It may be an interesting thought experiment (akin to Einstein's Gedankenexperiment) to consider what a fossilized mushroom might look like were it to be preserved in some manner but to seriously put any effort or thought into proving that your item is in fact such a fabled mushroom is not a productive use of time. Assuming that paleontologists have not found fossil unicorns for lack of trying is not how science works.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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JohnJ

Even without cutting, if this was a mushroom at some point because it has the current appearance of one, then there would be other mushroom features preserved with equal uniqueness.  I don't think there is evidence of those features, but you can make up close observations.  Your item reminds me of some kind of worn, botryoidal silicate rock.

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Plantguy

Interesting find...I like the suggestions from the last 4 posts about having someone look at it and do some tests and examine its inside. I agree it does look boytryoidal to me as well. Would be interesting to have the museum folks perform some simple mineral tests...relative hardness, specific gravity and check for streak color if any...

 

Keep us informed. 

Regards, Chris 

 

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Mark Kmiecik
3 hours ago, Randyw said:

Cut it open

Don't. It's a nice specimen.

 

I think it's a concretion for a few reasons, and not a mushroom. The stipe is off to one side, but there is no evidence that it was severed prior to preservation. Shouldn't it be centered below the cap? The hollow in the stipe, and the way the stipe terminates is not typical of mushrooms. The angle at which the annulus is attached to the stipe and cap seems odd, appearing to be near parallel to the stipe on its flat surface, as a flat ring would fit on one's finger. Also, for a mushroom this well preserved I would expect to see at least some of the volva still attached.

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