Scylla Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Theory on how feathered flight arose (no pun intended) https://phys.org/news/2019-08-sex-appeal-dinosaurs-flight.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Scylla said: Theory on how feathered flight arose (no pun intended) https://phys.org/news/2019-08-sex-appeal-dinosaurs-flight.html Here's a short excerpt from this page: "The first complex wing feathers show up in tiny raptor dinosaurs that could parachute and glide flying-squirrel-style through the prehistoric treetops," said Scott Persons, who led the study while he was a post-doctoral researcher at the U of A. The question I have is: How did they climb the tree? The ratio of weight to number of claws makes me wonder if they could support their own weight while climbing. Has there been any experimentation or research done on this? In order to climb one must let go with at least one limb and move it further up the trunk. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said: The question I have is: How did they climb the tree? The ratio of weight to number of claws makes me wonder if they could support their own weight while climbing. Has there been any experimentation or research done on this? In order to climb one must let go with at least one limb and move it further up I would think 12 claws would be enough. Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: I would think 12 claws would be enough. That's what I'm not sure about. At some points in the climb it would be only nine, or even six. Just wondering if any studies have been made that would verify that. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said: That's what I'm not sure about. At some points in the climb it would be only nine, or even six. Just wondering if any studies have been made that would verify that. Good question. I am not aware of any studies beyond a few examinations of the mechanics of tree climbing by animals in general. You could write up a proposal, get a grant, run the research the hypothesis, and publish it. Personally, I think observation of modern climbing animals renders the question moot for practical purposes (res ipsa loquitur). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 29 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said: That's what I'm not sure about. At some points in the climb it would be only nine, or even six. Just wondering if any studies have been made that would verify that. Three toed sloths have a total of 12 claws spread out over 4 limbs. They climb trees just fine. They have even been known to hang from a tree after death. Now there are also 2 toed sloths. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 One would assume that as digits were lost, the wing strength would increase. Also, there are the examples presented by Hoatzin chicks. They have two claws on each wing that disappear once they reach adulthood. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 It could be proposed that evolutionary pressure for success at climbing contributed to the extreme reduction of body weight that made flight possible. Maybe it was hard for the early adopters to climb with their terrestrial claws, and progressively thin-walled hollow bones were favored in the struggle for survival? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Auspex said: It could be proposed that evolutionary pressure for success at climbing contributed to the extreme reduction of body weight that made flight possible. Maybe it was hard for the early adopters to climb with their terrestrial claws, and progressively thin-walled hollow bones were favored in the struggle for survival? So did hollow bones precede powered flight? I think so but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, Scylla said: So did hollow bones precede powered flight? I think so but I'm not sure. It almost certainly preceded efficient powered flight. The genetic propensity was evident in the Theropod lineage, culminating in the pneumaticized skeleton. The resulting resperatory efficiency allowed the evolution of highly active predators, and of active flight. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 20 hours ago, Auspex said: It could be proposed that evolutionary pressure for success at climbing contributed to the extreme reduction of body weight that made flight possible. Maybe it was hard for the early adopters to climb with their terrestrial claws, and progressively thin-walled hollow bones were favored in the struggle for survival? I can see also how it would be an advantage in escaping predators, and evolution would obviously favor those who escaped. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kmiecik Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 21 hours ago, Scylla said: Three toed sloths have a total of 12 claws spread out over 4 limbs. They climb trees just fine. They have even been known to hang from a tree after death. Now there are also 2 toed sloths. True, and they're not the lightest of creatures. Mark. Fossil hunting is easy -- they don't run away when you shoot at them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted August 5, 2019 Author Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 8/3/2019 at 3:36 PM, Mark Kmiecik said: True, and they're not the lightest of creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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