Membrane Display Frames & stretch damage

[roostarr]

 

I ordered a several of these membrane display frames on e bay and the first of them arrived today and the stand was inside it between the membrane layers and predictably it's all stretched and deformed already (possiibly also damaged since one edge of the base was rough poorly molded plastic) - annoyingly this particular sized frame was intended for a very thin slab with fossil redwood stems, so it really needed to be as tight as possible to even stand a chance of securely holding it.

I knew the membrane would likely stretch and become loose with long term display of items but I didn't expect it to arrive already stretched out and well now i'm wondering if there's any way to "reset" the membrane so it's nice and tight again? I know certain plastic membranes i.e kitchen cling film and window insulation sheets shrink tighter with a little heat from a hair dryer, but didn't want to risk it without checking if any of you had tried it already or knew of an alternative solution.

I'll complain to the seller if I have to but it will just result in another month long wait for delivery from china if they send replacements or a refund and potential drama with the seller.

[digit]

Sucks to have problems right from the start on these but hopefully you'll be able to get the plastic to reset and work for your thin slab. I suspect that (as you imagined) the film might possibly retighten if exposed to some heat. I'd go for the hair drier idea and start with the hair drier further away and slowly over time bring it in closer while checking the temperature of the plastic with your finger and any movement in the stretched out areas with your eyes. Let us know if you are able to restore the plastic membrane to its proper shape and then let us see your final mount.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[caldigger]

Yes, the hair dryer works. It doesn't take much to do it either. Heat back and forth at a distance ( 10-12 inches away from it ). One side of the frame at a time.

It should get nice and taught like new in a jiffy.

[roostarr]

Fantastic, I hoped I was right. I'll give it a try later and let you know how it goes.

 

Thank you both

[digit]

When it does work to restore the proper tension, don't forget to take a photo of your fossil mounted in its membrane display when you are done. In fact, it would probably be useful for this topic (should anybody later have the same question) to show a photo of the stretched out membrane before heat treatment and then the result post hair drier. Showing some before/after images would be really useful to illustrate this technique in fixing this issue.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Randyw]

@roostarr I don’t know what yours cost but I get my sets of these from the selling site that starts with an a and I haven’t had a single bad one yet. Shipping took less then a week.

@caldigger thanks for the info! I haven’t needed it yet but that’s good to know!

[roostarr]

1 hour ago, digit said:

When it does work to restore the proper tension, don't forget to take a photo of your fossil mounted in its membrane display when you are done. In fact, it would probably be useful for this topic (should anybody later have the same question) to show a photo of the stretched out membrane before heat treatment and then the result post hair drier. Showing some before/after images would be really useful to illustrate this technique in fixing this issue.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Unfortunately heat treatment doesn't seem to be working very well so far. not sure if it's because of material type or the wrong temperature. So far I've tried both heat settings on the hair dryer (which may have yielded some very slight smoothing but barely noticable really), holding it in the steam above a fresh cup of tea - again nothing. Finally I tried a hot water bottle (using freshly boiled water) as a dry source of non moving high heat and again no effect.

 

The circular imprint from the sharper/rougher side of the stand looks like it's likely a permenant mark so I'm really not holding out much hope of this problem being resolved. and as predicted, it doesn't even come close to gripping securely enough on the thin slab that I hoped to display in it.

I'll try again to get some photos, but being a clear membrane makes it kinda hard to get it to focus correctly.

[roostarr]

1 minute ago, Randyw said:

@roostarr I don’t know what yours cost but I get my sets of these from the selling site that starts with an a and I haven’t had a single bad one yet. Shipping took less then a week.

@caldigger thanks for the info! I haven’t needed it yet but that’s good to know!

these ones were very cheap, £1 each for the smaller 7cm ones that haven't arrived yet and £1.21 for this 11cm one.

I did see a set of 3 for about £6ish on that rainforest river website (seriously this not naming online shopping locations thing is a bit silly, lol) but from experience most stock directly from chinese factories is identical just without branding logos/bulky packaging etc, same factory, same machine molds and just sold directly to make the owner a bit of extra money directly by cutting out the middleman. So i figured why not just give it a try and in this situation, it seems I got unlucky and ordered from a factory that chose a really weird way to package and ship them that resulted in damage!

 

hopefully the other smaller ones which are from a different seller arrive in better condition.

[Darktooth]

Not naming online sellers is not silly. It keeps the forum from lawsuits. Please refrain from doing this.

[Mark Kmiecik]

2 hours ago, digit said:

When it does work to restore the proper tension, don't forget to take a photo of your fossil mounted in its membrane display when you are done. In fact, it would probably be useful for this topic (should anybody later have the same question) to show a photo of the stretched out membrane before heat treatment and then the result post hair drier. Showing some before/after images would be really useful to illustrate this technique in fixing this issue.

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Would be good to know if they can be re-used for a different specimen also. Being able to upgrade without additional expense is always good.

[roostarr]

26 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

Not naming online sellers is not silly. It keeps the forum from lawsuits. Please refrain from doing this.

Ok I realise this is totally taking the topic off into a massive tangent and as a forum admin/moderator elsewhere I certainly don't want to be disrespectful, but protect the forum from lawsuits? that's a bit paranoid

Most companies welcome word of mouth recomendations to drive sales across most platforms and many forums (including some i've been admin/moderator on) and often benefit significantly from using affiliate links that offer a percentage of sale value in exchange for the referral at no additional cost to the customer - in the case of one forum a 5-10% cut of all sales went towards forum operation costs and at least 50% of the forum members actively used those links as often as possible to support the forum - much like the popular auctions on here show how keen members are to support the online knowledge sharing resourse here. 

A negative review of a company/service or product is admittedly more likely to annoy a company but they can't sue a public forum for a member's opinion and frankly it's also an essential part of e-commerce that they are undoubtly accepting of in the majority of cases because the ability to receive positive reviews or feedback is part of the gamble they are making by selling on such e-commerce websites.

 

[Kane]

Whether the lawsuit be vexatious, it is still an unwelcome use of our time and energy to defend against those who may be of a more litigious nature.  

 

Of course, it is not just negative statements we discourage, but any mention of online sellers as the Fossil Forum is primarily a science-based online resource that focuses on the fossils, not the seller as the latter is scientifically immaterial. It is not within our remit or policy to function as a commercial referral service, either. We do not even have side banner ads or any other link-based revenue model (which, compared to so many social media platforms and blogs, is somewhat refreshing!). 

 

One could see how easily allowing referrals may tend toward abuse, and particularly if some new member joins just to plug particular businesses due to some private arrangement. We find it is much cleaner to prohibit that kind of activity altogether, whether the statements be positive or negative about any business. 

 

I'm sorry you may find our stance in this matter silly or unnecessary, but it is the policy we abide by. 

[TyBoy]

Yeah just look at the customer feedback in Amazon ranges from bad to excellent and is a good tool to gain some knowledge on the product.   However we don't have the funds that Amazon has to deal with any litigation.

[DPS Ammonite]

Defending an unwarranted and frivolous lawsuit from an offended party would be a huge burden for the Forum. Sometimes positive comments about sellers are allowed. Negative comments about specific sellers are not allowed. Negative civil comments about sellers are generally allowed via PMs.

[Darktooth]

With all due respect to you, it has been mentioned many times by the administrators and moderators of this forum not to mention the names of companies because the forum can be held liable for statements posted here. Wether or not you choose to believe this is not the point. The point is that you blatantly chose to break a rule of the forum and claim that the rule is "silly". The people who have operated this forum have put into effect many different rules after putting in alot of thought. As a new member I would think that you would want to follow the rules of the forum to be a positive influence here. 

[Nimravis]

That is really weird that the stand was inserted between the membrane frame, all of the ones that I have purchased, and I have purchased a lot with several orders and the stand is on the outside of the frame and shrink wrapped. See below-

 

[Mark Kmiecik]

That's a seller's logo in the photo with the OP. 

[roostarr]

8 minutes ago, Kane said:

Whether the lawsuit be vexatious, it is still an unwelcome use of our time and energy to defend against those who may be of a more litigious nature.  

 

Of course, it is not just negative statements we discourage, but any mention of online sellers as the Fossil Forum is primarily a science-based online resource that focuses on the fossils, not the seller as the latter is scientifically immaterial. It is not within our remit or policy to function as a commercial referral service, either. We do not even have side banner ads or any other link-based revenue model (which, compared to so many social media platforms and blogs, is somewhat refreshing!). 

 

One could see how easily allowing referrals may tend toward abuse, and particularly if some new member joins just to plug particular businesses due to some private arrangement. We find it is much cleaner to prohibit that kind of activity altogether, whether the statements be positive or negative about any business. 

 

I'm sorry you may find our stance in this matter silly or unnecessary, but it is the policy we abide by. 

As a scientist myself and having saught out this resource for that very reason, I know it's important to maintain focus and protect that resource. Whilst i will always do my best to respect policy and respect you/the team for standing by said policy (believe me I know how difficult it is to run a forum and protect both members and the forum itself from problematic situations) I do hope you'll agree that an important part of knowledge and maintaining said resources particularly in relation to a scientific field - is to check the validity of current practice and ask if it needs revision.

I absolutely mean no disrespect whatsoever by my discussion of this matter and I apologise for prolonging this tangent further, but if I may be frank as a new and outside perspective - it feels more like censorship than litigation avoidance/maintaining strict scientific focus.

I absolutely see why it is necessary to prevent opportunistic people using such resources as a marketing platform for their own online shops/auctions hosted elsewhere for example. but preventing people from even saying the name of the online commercial website options in general discussion where they are merely stating that they bought something rather than found it is confusing... I edited a post multiple times last week thinking that I had made a typing error and that my edit was simply not registering as I was using my phone instead of a computer only to discover that it was actually the profanity filter being used to automatically prevent the use of the name of an auction site. (which I admit is an ingenius way to save time as a moderator)

Good scientific practice involves good citation and reference, surely allowing people to publically say where helpful items can be aquired prevents the need for topic repetition and avoids situations where people are forced to answer the same private message time and time again?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Darktooth said:

With all due respect to you, it has been mentioned many times by the administrators and moderators of this forum not to mention the names of companies because the forum can be held liable for statements posted here. Wether or not you choose to believe this is not the point. The point is that you blatantly chose to break a rule of the forum and claim that the rule is "silly". The people who have operated this forum have put into effect many different rules after putting in alot of thought. As a new member I would think that you would want to follow the rules of the forum to be a positive influence here. 

In all of the threads I read, including rules - this was not clear and as stated above, I only became aware of the extent of the censorship when trying to edit what I thought was a typo/editing glitch. The rules state no marketing of commercial websites, but doesn't explicitly state that even the names of said sites are forbidden... if that is mentioned in other posts I haven't seen it, only inferred such information from my editing situation and from noticing other members using round about descriptors for said websites (which only draws more attention to the websites in question than the actual names would have) - that said a simple disclaimer in the terms and conditions agreed to upon joining stating that the forum is not liable for any opinions or views stated by users should be more than adequate protection for the forum.

As a new member and incredibly appreciative of the knowledge resource it represents, I absolutely do want to have a positive influence here, but sometimes having a postitive influence involves offering an alternative perspective and facillitating friendly discussion. What you see as blatant rule breaking, I see as a friendly and light hearted comment that was in keeping with other name avoidance strategies used on the forum that opens up the matter for discussion in passing. Hopefully giant warrior women retail incorporated won't sue anybody for my silly joke.... or this one! eek!

[roostarr]

37 minutes ago, Nimravis said:

That is really weird that the stand was inserted between the membrane frame, all of the ones that I have purchased, and I have purchased a lot with several orders and the stand is on the outside of the frame and shrink wrapped. See below-

 

See that makes much more sense, but nope, they skipped the shrink wrap and stuck it inside the frame! guess they ran out of shrink wrap! haha

 

[roostarr]

39 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

That's a seller's logo in the photo with the OP. 

y'know... I didn't even notice that was too busy looking at the frames, just the first photo i found on google images to quickly show what I meant without having to struggle to take decent photos of the damaged one. But just to be clear - if that logo is somehow recognisable as a seller to anybody reading this thread, that is not in any way related to the seller i purchased my frames from.

[digit]

14 hours ago, roostarr said:

y'know... I didn't even notice that was too busy looking at the frames, just the first photo i found on google images to quickly show what I meant without having to struggle to take decent photos of the damaged one. But just to be clear - if that logo is somehow recognisable as a seller to anybody reading this thread, that is not in any way related to the seller i purchased my frames from.

Doesn't matter now as I've cropped off the seller's logo.

 

Sorry to hear that the attempts at heat treatment don't seem to be having the desired effect. At least it sounds like it wasn't a very expensive experiment to purchase from this seller. Hopefully, you'll be able to find another supplier to finally allow your item to be successfully mounted. We'd like to see an image after you finally get it displaying as you'd like.

 

As far as not focusing on sellers of fossils or fossil-related materials on TFF, this is something that has been fundamental to TFF from the start. You'll notice that there are no banner ads cluttering up the screen and no sections with product or seller reviews. TFF is a privately owned forum that tries (and succeeds) to focus on the fossils and the science of paleontology and not explicitly on the commercial side of our shared fossil hunting hobby (obsession). We have a model of donations (Paypal) and some generous forum-benefitting auctions which raise just enough funds to pay for the software and the website hosting which allows the site to be run without having to resort to advertising banners. The forum does not have the funds to defend against a lawsuit (even frivolous ones) we choose to moderate the site giving a wide berth to any public discussion of negative reviews of commercial entities. It may seem unusual, odd, out of the ordinary, or even "silly" to ignore the commercial side of fossil hunting and collecting but there are plenty of other sites more than willing to do so and we feel there is a place for a forum on the internet where we can discuss fossils and share the combined knowledge of our membership without publicly discussing the commercial side of fossil hunting/collecting.

 

As a rule, we do not answer questions about the value of fossils and coyly answer questions as to whether a particular fossil is worth the amount it is being offered for with the response that it is worth what someone would pay for it. We allow members who are seeking advice on purchasing fossils or gear (tools, prepping equipment, displays) to reply with their opinions via direct PM responses which allow honest opinions based upon past experience to be of assistance to members looking for information and still keeping it off the public side of the forum. There are ways of allowing members to share information on companies they have experience with and yet keep the forum free from any liability (regardless of its merit).

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[roostarr]

OK, going back to the original topic... I thought I'd update on the membrane frame since i'd finally had some SUCCESS repairing it.

 

Hair dryer didn't work at all for me, I think it was either not hot enough to trigger shrinkage or pressure of the air movement was counteracting the heat and keeping it stretched as it heats up even on a low speed setting held at a distance.

I was going to try a higher temperature craft heat gun, but that too would have had the air movement problem, so I decided to try a much slower and much hotter heat source - my gas powered kitchen cooker top.

I lit the largest sized cooking ring and turned it to the lowest setting. so the heat would cover a large area but remain as low as possible in both heat and flame size. I held the open frame above the flames at a distance of about 12 inches and slowly moved it down to about 8 inches where it finally started to show a reaction to the heat. it only took about 40 seconds from start to finish with most of that being the warming process and the actual shrinkage only took about 10 seconds once it got going and hit that magic temperature it needed. Nice and tight like new again.

Unfortunately the circular imprint from the sharp side of the stand wouldn't vanish completely and there is still a little ghost circle when you look closely, but it's still infinitely better and functional again.

The fossil I hoped to put in it is annoyingly still too thin to be held by the membrane, so I'll have to find that another display option for that, but at least the frame was salvageable and i'm sure something else from my collection will look good in it instead.

[digit]

Thanks for the update and the possible technique to revitalize stretched out membrane displays.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Randyw]

Cool! Glad you found a way that mostly worked for you!