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Rarer to find than complete trilobites


mikeymig

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Clam Shrimp
This primitive crustacean is rarer to find than complete trilobites. Found by my gf Paula today (8/19). When alive 380 million years ago,this shell contained a shrimp looking animal. A rare find and large for the species. :) A pic of a closely related Asmussia (Devonian) shows the anatomy with eyes and antennae. Paula found the fossil exposed in the shale at the streams edge. She called me over to look at it and she of course thought it was a brachiopod. That's understandable. She found a killer Orthospirifer a week earlier at this same locality.  It looks like a brachiopod so you can imagine her confusion when I told her it was a branchiopod  ;)  Some of you like Paula may have never heard of clam shrimp before. But you may have seen or heard of fairy shrimp (Sea Monkeys) and Triops that are alive today. They are all in the same class -  Branchiopoda. 
Thanks,
Mikeymig

schizo.jpg

Arthropod.jpg

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This is very cool, Mikey!

Are these single valves? 

    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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Cool. Are you sure that's not an inarticulate brachiopod?  I thought the umbo of conchostracans was positioned towards the hinge rather than centrally located on the valve.

 

Compare with Orbiculoidea 

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I've never seen an Orbiculoidea  that big.    :unsure: 

Also, I've never seen one not in matrix, or oval in shape. :headscratch:

    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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It depends on who you talk to and what authors you trust. Some books and publications call it an inarticulate brachiopod and some call it an arthropod/branchiopod. The unit that it was found in is very limited as to the type of fossils found (no corals, very few brachs, rare trilobites, and phyllocarids). Every Orbiculoidea I have found is small, and attached to something. These are larger (a tad over 2 inches) and both valves. The preservation is very similar with that of the phyllocarids. The first one I found I labeled - Orbiculoidea (inarticulate brachiopod). I was told (by someone way smarted than me) that the latest research has classified these large specimens at this site as branchiopods. I do not have the paper or author but trust my source. It makes sense to me on the level of collecting when I see whats preserved within this horizon. Mobile crustacean (phyllocarids, trilobites, branchiopods) and mobile cephalopods dominate this locality. So for now, IM calling it an arthropod. :)      

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Very cool find! Even if the specimen doesn’t turn out to be a clam shrimp in the end, I’m glad that you shared. I had never heard of them before and I love learning about something new! :thumbsu:

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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2 hours ago, FossilNerd said:

Very cool find! Even if the specimen doesn’t turn out to be a clam shrimp in the end, I’m glad that you shared. I had never heard of them before and I love learning about something new! :thumbsu:

Thanks. In 25 years, I've only found a few of these and we only find them at one locality here in NY. My girlfriend found this specimen yesterday. I had the ones I found labeled Orbiculoidea (Inarticulate Brachiopod) in my collection then I was told that they were Schizodiscus capsa a Branchiopod (Arthropod). Now Im told the label was right the first time. So I dont know fossilnerd. I just want my labels to be as accurate as possible ;) 

Many times I've wondered how much there is to know.  
led zeppelin

 

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Al Tahan found an identical one in this thread: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/93930-tried-a-new-spot-this-weekend/

Because of the large size I thought it was a fish scale instead of a brachiopod but the pedicle opening on both of these examples makes me pretty sure they are brachiopods. The two valves on mikeymig's fossil rules out fish scale. The asymmetry of the two valves (one side has the pedicle opening) makes me think brachiopod.

 

 

al tahan.jpeg

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33 minutes ago, Al Dente said:

Al Tahan found an identical one in this thread: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/93930-tried-a-new-spot-this-weekend/

Because of the large size I thought it was a fish scale instead of a brachiopod but the pedicle opening on both of these examples makes me pretty sure they are brachiopods. The two valves on mikeymig's fossil rules out fish scale. The asymmetry of the two valves (one side has the pedicle opening) makes me think brachiopod.

Except, Al's find was confirmed to be a fish scale by Ted Daeschler

 

Also, I'm having a hard time finding any images where the Orbiculoidea look like they are over 2 cm.  :headscratch:

    Tim    VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER

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"In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks."
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It looks similar to: Lindstroemella aspidium

 

Hall, J., Clarke, J.M. 1892

An Introduction to the Study of the Genera of Palaeozoic Brachiopoda.

Geological Survey of the State of New York, Palaeontology, 8(1):1-367  LINK

 

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3 hours ago, mikeymig said:

Thanks. In 25 years, I've only found a few of these and we only find them at one locality here in NY. My girlfriend found this specimen yesterday. I had the ones I found labeled Orbiculoidea (Inarticulate Brachiopod) in my collection then I was told that they were Schizodiscus capsa a Branchiopod (Arthropod). Now Im told the label was right the first time. So I dont know fossilnerd. I just want my labels to be as accurate as possible ;) 

I completely understand wanting your labels right! I prefer to be as accurate as possible myself, but I have been proven wrong on more than one occasion, and honestly I’m glad that I was. I’d rather be corrected than go around spreading false information. We learn and grow from our mistakes. I think most here would agree.

 

I don’t have the knowledge to confirm nor deny your ID, but others have reported some compelling information. Just remember to look at all the evidence with an unbiased eye. Also remember that even if it turns out that it’s not a Branchiopod, it still sounds to be a rare and very cool find for your area. Something to be proud of finding/owning. :) 

 

I’m anxiously waiting to see how this one plays out. :popcorn:

 

 

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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Im not concerned or will be upset if this is a brachiopod (like I have always thought they were) and not an arthropod "clam shrimp". My gf Paula will be happy to hear its a brachiopod and not a primitive crustacean.  She was kinda grossed out about it looking like a crab or spider. She likes brachiopods a lot and she found this huge Orthospirifer (the best I have ever seen) a week earlier at the same locality. Now shes 2 rare brachs in 2 trips :) 

 

  Thank you everyone for your comments. 

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Many times I've wondered how much there is to know.  
led zeppelin

 

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Wow...just saw this...I initially thought I had found an inarticulate brachiopod and posted that I found a massive inarticulate brachiopod. Then It was suggested I ask Ted Daeschler if he thought this was a scale. He seemed to think it was a rhizodont scale. Of all the orbiculoidea I have found they are always tiny! I cant believe you found this with 2 valves!! I don’t see how it could be a scale now cause these are absolutely the same genus species. 

 

I can see how this can be confusing. Not sure what the final conclusion will be but I’m on the brachiopod train. 

 

FB5BCA7B-AB6E-436A-9F57-AEF3B8F32F62.jpeg.9b2d070f97475484c0de3ace970e53ae.jpeg

 

I outlined this diagram with a black line. It’s not perfect but shows the basic shape I would expect from this in a fossil form. Mike and my specimens are very round in nature compared to this. 

 

 

These seem much rounder.  

404059A7-4E12-4322-8D45-AB55F24085EB.jpeg

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I don't know if it will fall in the genus Orbiculoidea or not, I just suggested that as a morphological comparison (i.e. "compare with...").

 

Perhaps it will end up being a new species.  

 

Edit: Pirahna may have it nailed (although I don't know the scale on the reference but it looks like a good match)

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I have seen Orbiculoidea in the Oriskany (Lower Devonian) Formation from Albany County, N.Y. approaching that size. 

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