minnbuckeye Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I took a short trip to visit my son in Florida. We were to meet up with @jcbshark to do a little fishing. Unfortunately, mother nature had other ideas for us. It poured for 4 straight days, the length of my stay. I believe rain tallies were officially over 14 inches while we visited. Sooooo, what was a person to do??????? GO FOSSIL HUNTING!!!!!! I did have the opportunity to surface hunt for a few hours in a housing development near my son. Yes I was soaked with rain, but it helped to shine up the shark teeth. A picture of my finds: A closer look at a few teeth: But I am here to ID a few things. 1. The first is a tooth that I think is equine in nature. I am confused in that every horse tooth that I have found in Florida is MUCH larger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 number 1 is horse Mike Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 2. Just looks like it should be something???? 3. My guess on this is a beat up whale vertebrae broken in a strange way??? But it looks like a horn emerging from the bone. So looking for thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 @jcbshark, thanks for the verification. And more thanks for your recommendations last night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 4. Looks like tooth or tusk or antler that has been damaged by the landscape equipment (flat on one side)???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilus Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 #1 callipus? Do you know the age of the sediments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkdoctor Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, minnbuckeye said: "I was soaked with rain, but it helped to shine up the shark teeth." Now that' s a good attitude if I've ever seen one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, minnbuckeye said: 4. Looks like tooth or tusk or antler that has been damaged by the landscape equipment (flat on one side)???? You might be seeing a sperm whale tooth .. that is a possibility with the interior growth rings visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Yup. The growth rings make me lean that way as well. When @Boesse finds the time to check back in on the forum, possibly he'll have something more informative to add. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Mike, just to give you some idea of how huge some of these horse teeth get. All are whole teeth root to Occlusal surface. Yours I suspect like mine are of pre-Equus varieties ( those rascally little forest dwelling guys). Miocene/Pliocene Peace River- Hardee County, Florida 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 @fossilus Sorry, I do not know the age of the sediment. Bradenton Florida housing development darker grey sand with many dugong bones and shark teeth in it if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 12 hours ago, caldigger said: pre-Equus varieties @caldigger, I didn't know there was a pre equus in Florida . We don't deal with horse teeth in Minnesota!!! All my other teeth are just labeled equus. My research shows that Equus started about 5 million years ago, Pliocene?? So how does one differentiate their "horse teeth" when earlier and later formations are mixed together in these collecting areas. Also found this from brettparris.com. which at least gives me a flowchart. Florida should have specimens from mesohippus to equus. Is size of teeth the determining factor or can one tell from the biting surface?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 We have very little Oligocene exposures available in Florida and most of our Eocene (generally further north in the state) tends to be marine deposits so I suspect much of the state was underwater during the Eocene (though I'd have to check my Florida geology books to be sure). The best known Eocene in Florida is the Ocala Limestone which is where all those nice echinoids come from. The Peace River generally cuts through a large swath of material and mostly give Plio/Pleistocene material with some latter Miocene fauna thrown in for good measure. Up around the Gainesville area one of the most common fossils in the Thomas Farm (Miocene sink hole) site is Parahippus leonensis. Dr. Hulbert has identified several Miocene Pseudhipparion skinneri horse teeth for me from the Peace. Various species of Nannippus are occasionally found as are Cormohipparion and Neohipparion. Equus teeth are larger and more modern and so probably account for most of the teeth found--but smaller teeth are always a delight (and often a puzzle). If you can't find matching images of the convoluted enamel pattern on the occlusal surface online, you can always submit a good-quality photo (with scale) to Dr. Hulbert and he'll easily identify it (it's one of his specialties). Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, minnbuckeye said: So how does one differentiate their "horse teeth" when earlier and later formations are mixed together in these collecting areas. Great Chart, Mike -- Looks like you had a fantastic time... That @jcbshark guy is always a pleasure to hunt with .. dynamic personality.. The spots he is taking you are a mixture dating from early miocene to current. In some cases, you search original ocean bottom. I would date it back 10-20 myas. Tamiami Formation, Hawthorne group, green clay on top of limestone. Florida emerged during the Eocene about 48 myas ago (that is why we do not have any dinosaur remains) So, Florida horse teeth... pre_equus Yes!!! Chewing surface pattern and SIZE of chewing. You did not provide length by width of the chewing surface. Your measurement is of "Crown Height" the distance from the root to the crown. On the Chewing surface, your tooth is damaged.. You are missing the section which would have the Isolated protocone IF it existed. It does not look like equus but SIZE would tell us. As Ken suggested, I still believe it is identifiable.. certainly by Richard Hulbert Small teeth: Florida Phosphate Mines -- about 10 myas Nannippus Aztecus. Note the size of the lower left back tooth in center of photo: 16 mm long and 7 mm wide. Compare this tooth to the exact same position tooth is in a closely related species Nannippus Peninsulatus (below) at 19 x 9 mms. You differentiate by chewing surface pattern, by size and by age of the formation. This Peninsulatus was found in a Blancan site 3-5 myas 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 @Shellseeker, Jeff was not my guide. I found this site alone a year ago in the Bradenton area close to where my son lives. By next year, it will be someone's green grass. I am up at 5 am and no one else rises until 8, so I go exploring and lucked onto this spot! Think of what I would have found had I gone out with Jeff or you for that matter! Thanks for the "horse" info. I suppose you still go to the Peace in spite of water levels?? @digit, your help is also greatly appreciated. How does one contact Richard Hulbert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, minnbuckeye said: How does one contact Richard Hulbert? Not too difficult--he's terrible at playing Hide & Seek: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/index.php/vertpaleo/staff-grads/staff/ Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 3 hours ago, minnbuckeye said: I suppose you still go to the Peace in spite of water levels?? That's a big negative.. Zolfo Springs can not be hunted when the USGS gauge is over 6 feet deep. It was at 19 feet !!! 5 days ago , now at 17 feet. 16 feet is flood stage We have had rain every day for the last 3 weeks.. I am home, reading, sorting fossils, rebuilding my sieves and..... grumbling. but the sun will shine again, the Peace River will drop, I will get out hunting, and , once more, all will be good in my world.... At that size/shape we would most likely call it Kogiopsis .sp The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Jack is crazy--but he's not that crazy. We're all in holding phase for next year's season--let's hope it is longer than the last one. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, minnbuckeye said: I suppose you still go to the Peace in spite of water levels?? Sure, it just requires me to slip into my "special" suit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 That might just be heavy enough to keep you from getting swept away in the current. On second thought, probably not...... Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 yup, those are sperm whale teeth for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 @Boesse, thanks for the conformation. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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