Kcee Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 If someone finds a number of fossils that scientist can not ID, does the person that found them get to name them all if they turn out to be new a specie.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 50 minutes ago, Kcee said: If someone finds a number of fossils that scientist can not ID, do the person that found them get to name them all if they turn out to be new a specie.? No.Discovering if an organism, extinct or extant, is a new species is quite a process. With extant species the naming, classification, and defining new species is done via a branch of biology called Taxonomy. I am pretty sure that the naming of new fossil species would be done by professional Paleontologists. If you are just a fossil collector or amateur Paleontologist that happens upon fossils that turn out to be a new species, you would not get to name them. I do know that new fossils are sometimes named after the people that discovered them but that is not always the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilsonwheels Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I should add that I THINK that is how fossil species are named. I was a wildlife biologist and am just a collector of fossils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 @Kcee Amateurs can also name new species as long as they are able to write a scientific paper which conforms to the rules and which passes what is called a peer review. How to Write a Scientific Paper.pdf Journal of Paleontology_Instructions for Authors.pdf 8 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkdoctor Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 @Kcee With a few new species under my belt, my experience is that it depends on who you are working with and the circumstances surrounding the find. A few thoughts on the topic: 1. Naming takes place through the successful completion of a peer reviewed publication 2. Peer reviewed publications are intensely difficult to do on your own unless you have sufficient training and experience 3. Working with a professional to describe a new species in a publication is fun and tends to open new paleo opportunities for amateurs 4. At worst, you will be mentioned in the publication as the finder, at best, your last name will be applied as the species name. The genus portion of the name will be derived based on the taxonomy of the specimen. Check out this overview of the naming process: https://www.theguardian.com/science/lost-worlds/2013/jun/21/dinosaurs-fossils 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kcee Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 19 hours ago, Ludwigia said: @Kcee Amateurs can also name new species as long as they are able to write a scientific paper which conforms to the rules and which passes what is called a peer review. How to Write a Scientific Paper.pdf Journal of Paleontology_Instructions for Authors.pdf Aww man....the only way a paper I write would pass peer review, is if that peer was my 5 year old grand daughter. I think I'll just leave this name thing to the professional. Besides I can understand someone finding one or two unknown species but not several in one place so I will just have to keep looking until I can find someone that can ID some of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Actually the process is spelled out in the Code of Zoological Nomenclature and peer review is not an actual requirement. What is required is that the specimens that are used as the examples (holotype, paratype, etc.) must be deposited in a museum or university collection where they can be accessed by researchers in the future. The publication and descriptions should follow a format set out in the CZN. Then the publication must be readily available to other researchers. Now with that said, as stated above, the generally understood process almost always involves peer review. Other specialists in the area concerned take a look and make sure the science is correctly done and the descriptions make sense. The process can take some time and there may be many revisions before final publication. And most papers are published in established professional journals or by universities or museums. Paleontology is pretty cool in that there are new fossils being found on a regular basis by amateurs. From dinosaurs to sea urchins. What is important is that if you think you have found something truly unique* you make an effort to get it into the hands of the professionals. Arrange to take it to a university or museum with paleontologists that can truly assess the scientific value. If you are lucky they will take on the project of describing and publishing and as folks suggest you might even get your name attached to it. *One of the bigger parts of describing new species is taking the time to review all know species that are similar to make sure it isn't actually already known or that it isn't just a variant on an existing described species. As an amateur you may not find it in all the usual reference books but that doesn't mean it hasn't been described somewhere else. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kcee Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 8 hours ago, erose said: *One of the bigger parts of describing new species is taking the time to review all know species that are similar to make sure it isn't actually already known or that it isn't just a variant on an existing described species. As an amateur you may not find it in all the usual reference books but that doesn't mean it hasn't been described somewhere else. erose---Thanks for the info, I've been researching these specimen for about 5 years now, have read as much reference material that I can find and have contacted several scientist but can not find anything or anyone that can ID this stuff. I think it's just a matter of finding the right person, all of this stuff just can't be unknown, there is just too much of it. There has been a lot of money and time invested in trying to understand this stuff and I must admit, I and a few others have learned a lot but we will never figure this stuff out, but wow...what a ride!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Kcee said: erose---Thanks for the info, I've been researching these specimen for about 5 years now, have read as much reference material that I can find and have contacted several scientist but can not find anything or anyone that can ID this stuff. I think it's just a matter of finding the right person, all of this stuff just can't be unknown, there is just too much of it. There has been a lot of money and time invested in trying to understand this stuff and I must admit, I and a few others have learned a lot but we will never figure this stuff out, but wow...what a ride!!! That’s good to know. I’ve built up a pretty good reference library specific to where I collect and can usually find the fossil ID. But not always. By example there are number of undescribed echinoids here in Texas despite a century of research. Recently a bunch were described by Bill Thompson (2016), an amateur collector who created a huge monograph, but there are still others. Myself and another member of the forum have been making specimens available to actual paleontologists. Now we just have to be patient. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kcee Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 erose….sounds like you have been doing this for a while, bet you've got one heck of a collection. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erose Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 17 hours ago, Kcee said: erose….sounds like you have been doing this for a while, bet you've got one heck of a collection. Yes, I have been collecting for many many years and most of it with a serious intent to make it something that would hold up scientifically. That doesn't mean all my fossils are identified correctly. But it does mean that everything has really good notes on where it was found and in what formation to the best of my ability. No, I don't have one of those premier collections loaded with amazing specimens. I have some nice stuff, all collected by me with only a few exceptions. I almost never buy fossils and only when they fit into what I already have collected. I also collect faunas and not just one type of fossil such as trilobites or echinoids. And in doing so I often collect scrappy stuff if it happens to be a bit of something I have never seen before. My favorite thing to do is hunt down and compile faunal lists for the areas I collect and see how many of them I can find. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kcee Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 7 hours ago, erose said: Yes, I have been collecting for many many years and most of it with a serious intent to make it something that would hold up scientifically. That doesn't mean all my fossils are identified correctly. But it does mean that everything has really good notes on where it was found and in what formation to the best of my ability. I never really thought of myself as a collector, I'm just a dummy that allowed my curiosity to get carried away and now I have hundreds of items that I'm trying to understand. That's why I'm on this site asking so many dumb questions, I have to admit, I've learned more on this site in a month than I did searching on my own in a year. There is so much of this stuff that others are now very curious and involved. What makes most of this stuff so difficult is that it's mostly microscopic specimen. Below is a sample of what we are up against, there are hundreds of specimen in that small container. Have only showed about 20-30 to several scientist and to date only 2 have been identified, the answer we get the most is, "I can not say what that is". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts