pleecan Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Thanks Solius Symbiousus and Arcyzona for the feedback... interesting concept of the potential of finding fish in late ordovician... does any one know what the devonian fish armour composition? is it something like chitin like present day lobsters/ horseshoe crabs or is it more boney... plates. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placoderms Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Placoderms: Are you able to post a close up shot of the fish scales... I am really curious on the surface morphology... neat to get a clearer picture of the surface bumps and dimples of the armour. PL PL, Sorry it was a long week at work... I attached a close up pic of Placoderm armor from Alpena. The armor has a lot of raised bumps on it. My first trip up there the more experienced collectors told me I could check to see if it was bone by seeing if it would stick to my tongue, at first I thought they were trying to fool the "new guy" but in fact they were right! T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placoderms Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Thanks Solius Symbiousus and Arcyzona for the feedback... interesting concept of the potential of finding fish in late ordovician... does any one know what the devonian fish armour composition? is it something like chitin like present day lobsters/ horseshoe crabs or is it more boney... plates. PL All the fish armor I find looks like bone on the back side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 PL, Sorry it was a long week at work... I attached a close up pic of Placoderm armor from Alpena. The armor has a lot of raised bumps on it. My first trip up there the more experienced collectors told me I could check to see if it was bone by seeing if it would stick to my tongue, at first I thought they were trying to fool the "new guy" but in fact they were right! T Thank you Placoderms for posting the enlarge pictures of the armor... I now have a much better idea what to look for. Armed with this info... I am going back to Hungry Hollow this Sunday to do some fossil hunt at the south pit ... will concentrate on the Widder formation for fish scales. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 All the fish armor I find looks like bone on the back side. Placoderms: Thanks for the insight... boney armor... alot heavier than trilobite exterior... I am grateful for your postings. I have learned lots on fish fossils on this forum....as I was totally ignorant on Fish fossil prior to joining this forum.... never really gave it much thought as I was mainly hunting in ordovician strata prior to visiting Devonian Arkona.... lots of fun. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 While at Hungry Hollow, I picked up this coral with a colony of Botryllopora on it. Looks similar to Constellaria of the Ordovician. Botryllopora is uncommon at this locality but not as rare as Constelleria is in the Ordovician of Ontario. On my side trip to the JD Quarry on Sunday I picked up one rock with four colonies of Constelleria. A first for me. Constellaria is so rare up here that once a tiny colony appeared on ebay. I bid $50 for it and lost. Some crazy person out there paid $180 for it. Actually there are two crazy people out there since it always takes two to get the price up that high. I assumed that Constellaria was a common fossil in all the Ord... they litter the ground here; so much so, that I haven't picked one up in years. If you want some, the next time I am out I will grab you some. Solius, I will take a nice colony of Constellaria from your area. I hope to come down some time soon to collect in your area. We are opening a new plant in Hopkinsville and I have to visit it some time soon. maybe we can meet up. crinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 ^^Sounds like a plan. Let me know when your headed this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I found this at Hungry Hollow, now I am thinking it appears to be a fish scale.the underside appears structural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Those raised bumps, denticles are very similar to the fish scales posted by Placoderms and Crinus. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Fish armor might be more like it; nice! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Yeah, it really does have that armor feel to it, doesn't it? Must have been some tough fishie indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Some more Hungry Hollow/Arkona specimens: Here is the 1 Greenops pigydium that I kept …and a now identified (thanks Northern Sharks! ) Bactrites arkonense Cephalopod shell fragment with intact brown nacre Also a crinoid calx with a gastropod stuck on top. More to come later...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt cable Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Also a crinoid calx with a gastropod stuck on top. More to come later...... The calyx appears to be Arthroacantha carpenteri with the gastropod Platyceras arkonense. Here's another pic Edited November 23, 2009 by matt cable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Thank you very much Matt, I have made a note of the ID. As promised, here are some more Arkona specimens. This is a formerly-unknown but now (probably) identified specimen of Botryllopora sp. (bryozoan) (thanks again Northern Sharks! ), at least that is what we are thinking it is….. And a close up of same: And the other side...a foram, maybe? This is the flip side of the piece that the Botryllopora is on. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Bear, when folks talk about screening fossils, they're referring to using a fine-mesh sieve to separate the tiny ones from the dirt... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 My first trilobite collected from Arkona, found in pile of muck eroded from Widder formation above... Unprep Greenops collected at High Banks area, Hungry Hollow on Nov 22/09. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Bear, when folks talk about screening fossils, they're referring to using a fine-mesh sieve to separate the tiny ones from the dirt... Screening???? I thought they said screaming fossils!!! (Now I gotta 'splain this to the neighbors....) I have a micro to show you later, Tracer, despite that I am not so wonderful with microscope pix. That Greenops appears to be on his back, Pleecan. I will be interested in seeing the underside of his/her carapace when you get it cleaned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Bear: I do not think the Greenops is on its back.... the carpace is convex ie curveing towards the matrix. In the 6 yrs of collecting trilobites , I have not yet been fortunate to have one that the ventral side is exposed.... this will be an indoor winter project to clean up with air abrasion unit, the fossil when it is snowing outside and -40C below, in the great white north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Ah, it must be my antique eyes squinting at the photo, made it look concave. Too bad, sorta. I spent quite a bit of time looking for ventral views of trilobites a few years ago, trying to get a good look at how a hypostome was articulated, especially for predation.Yeah, winter up here is a great time to do prep work and watch the snow fall. Puppy and I will be out in it every day for a few hours though, as Labradors love it cold and wet! I don't mind it at all either, but I do dress appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleecan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Bear: We are all in the same boat as our eyes age... I may also have to start wearing bifocals to see properly.... alway thought bifocals are for old farts... well just dawned on me that I am an old fart . We all were once young.... time does pass quickly. I will keep in mind for the future ... on ventral exposed trilobites with intact hypostome assemblies to send you a photo. PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I thank you much for the kind sentiments and wish you good speed in that discovery as well.I am afraid that I also qualify as an O.F. now, and I do wear the glasses, though my distance vision is still great. They say that time passes quickly when you are having fun....guess that I am having fun! Beats the alternative, I bet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest solius symbiosus Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Some more Hungry Hollow/Arkona specimens: Also a crinoid calx with a gastropod stuck on top. An example of coprophageous symbiosis... very rare. Nice! Here is one that I found about 25 years ago, from the Ord.: Glyptocrinus sp. and Cyclonema varicosum scale bar about 2.5cm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinus Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 An example of coprophageous symbiosis... very rare. Nice! Kind of interesting how some things rare in your area are common up here and also the reverse. The gastropods on the crinoids are very common up at Arkona. In fact it is rare to find an Arthroacantha without a gastropod attached. Most Corocrinus also found at Arkona have a gastropod. You never find a gastropod attached to a Decorocrinus. Here is an Arthroacantha with two gastropods on the same crinoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 OK, now you have me wondering...when I found mine with the gastropod, I assumed it to be a chance occurrence, a fluke of the currents that put the 2 creatures together when they died and were fossilized. From what you are saying, it seems more like the gastropods were co - existent/symbiotic with the crinoids. Perhaps they ate off the algae that accumulated on the crinoids? Dined on missed meal leavings? What do you think, or does someone know (more or less)? I used to have snails in my fish tanks that ate the algae off the aquarium glass....that would be sort - of the same thing, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sharks Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 OK, now you have me wondering...when I found mine with the gastropod, I assumed it to be a chance occurrence, a fluke of the currents that put the 2 creatures together when they died and were fossilized. From what you are saying, it seems more like the gastropods were co - existent/symbiotic with the crinoids. Perhaps they ate off the algae that accumulated on the crinoids? Dined on missed meal leavings? What do you think, or does someone know (more or less)? I used to have snails in my fish tanks that ate the algae off the aquarium glass....that would be sort - of the same thing, I guess. Nothing that nice, sorry to say. I also found a crinoid/gastropod pair and found out that the snails likely fed on the feces of the crinoid (hence Solius saying coprophageous -look it up) There's no limit to what you can accomplish when you're supposed to be doing something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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