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Are Ripple Marks Geological or Fossil?


FossilNerd

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I’m very curious about these “ripple marks” that I have seen posted a few times on the forum. From what little research I have been able to do (so far...) they seem to be caused by wind or water erosion of the rock. However, there is mention of them possibly being fossilized rippled sediment from the floor of a body of water.  

 

So... are these geological erosions or some type of fossilized evidence of water movement? I can see how the erosion would work, but wouldn’t the sediment be compressed during lithification/fossilization and destroy the details if it was from a body of water millions of years old? 

 

Ripple Marks

 

Mention of Fossilization

 

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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Hi there!

 

it is possible and rather common in some areas to get ripple marks preserved in rock. Evidence for the action of water on sediment can be preserved on many scales from the orientation of particles to ripples to cross bedding.

I would call them sedimentary structures rather than fossils, but it depends on how strictly you follow the definition of fossil (from Latin fossilis "dug up")

you are right that post burial deformation or squeezing, stretching and baking of rocks can destroy these ripples, but under the right conditions they are preserved.

There are some amazing deposits here in Australia.

 

So yes, ripple marks are soft sediment or mud ripples like you would see at a beach or estuary quickly buried and preserved in rock.

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8 minutes ago, Doctor Mud said:

Hi there!

 

it is possible and rather common in some areas to get ripple marks preserved in rock. Evidence for the action of water on sediment can be preserved on many scales from the orientation of particles to ripples to cross bedding.

I would call them sedimentary structures rather than fossils, but it depends on how strictly you follow the definition of fossil (from Latin fossilis "dug up")

you are right that post burial deformation or squeezing, stretching and baking of rocks can destroy these ripples, but under the right conditions they are preserved.

There are some amazing deposits here in Australia.

 

So yes, ripple marks are soft sediment or mud ripples like you would see at a beach or estuary quickly buried and preserved in rock.

Thanks for the info! It’s very interesting (for me at least...) to think that these would be preserved!  They seem so delicate and easily disturbed or destroyed when you find them today in a place like a beach.

 

I guess technically they would not be a fossil when using the definition of “The preserved remains of an organism that is over 10,000 years old.” Which is how I tend to think when asked “What is a fossil?”. As water is not a living organism. 

 

However, since they are the preserved evidence of water movement, I find them very cool indeed. I’m definitely adding one of these to my bucket list of specimens to get. :) 

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The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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Fossil or sedimentary structure preservation can be a bit like real estate - location location location..... But really it is mainly about being in a location where things are quickly buried and not disturbed. Places without oxygen are great as you won't get burrowing animals messing up your nice ripples, the fast burial can quickly preserve your delicate structures from erosion.

 

One of my favourite TV shows when I was young was David Attenborough's "Forgotten Worlds Vanished Lives" and I remember a shot when the camera panned over some ripple marks and next thing you know it's in a cliff face! Not a beach!

 

Looks Like episodes are available online which I'm excited about revisiting it!

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Doctor Mud said:

Fossil or sedimentary structure preservation can be a bit like real estate - location location location..... But really it is mainly about being in a location where things are quickly buried and not disturbed. Places without oxygen are great as you won't get burrowing animals messing up your nice ripples, the fast burial can quickly preserve your delicate structures from erosion.

 

One of my favourite TV shows when I was young was David Attenborough's "Forgotten Worlds Vanished Lives" and I remember a shot when the camera panned over some ripple marks and next thing you know it's in a cliff face! Not a beach!

 

Looks Like episodes are available online which I'm excited about revisiting it!

 

 

They are now online?! Sweet! I’m adding them to my “watchlist”. :) 

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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1 minute ago, FossilNerd said:

They are now online?! Sweet! I’m adding them to my “watchlist”. :) 

Yes, I just looked it up and discovered it. The link didn't work on my tablet, but they are almost an hour Long each and Internet is a bit slow here.

Dailymotion has them

 

Let me know if the link works for you.

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@Doctor Mud The links works! Thanks!

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.  -Neil deGrasse Tyson

 

Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy)

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10 minutes ago, FossilNerd said:

@Doctor Mud The links works! Thanks!

Cool!

I just posted it in its own topic so it is easier to find too.

Looking forward to revisiting this classic soon!

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  • 3 years later...

Hello- I just introduced myself in the new member forum but I wanted to reply specifically to this thread. While my husband hand-cuts our sandstone, he has uncovered some beautiful, ripple mark stones. Thanks!

ancient_ripple_marks.JPG

fossil_ripple_wave.JPG

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Hi,

 

Here is the answer already given by @Fossildude19, one of our administrators, to your questions already asked in another subject now locked :

 

"Hello, and Welcome to the Forum.

 

Unfortunately, we cannot help you with these questions. The forum doesn't provide monetary valuations. It is against the rules.

 

These items are not technically fossils, but are rather sedimentary structures. As far as I am aware, there is no real "market" for ripple marks.

 

We steer away from discussion of the retail\commercial aspects of fossil collection on the open forums.

 

Topic is now locked".

 

When you arrived on this forum, you signed and accepted the rules.

 

Coco

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----------------------
OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici

Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici
Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici
Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici
Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici
Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici
Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici

Un Greg...

Badges-IPFOTH.jpg.f4a8635cda47a3cc506743a8aabce700.jpg Badges-MOTM.jpg.461001e1a9db5dc29ca1c07a041a1a86.jpg

 

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Microbial mats are considered trace fossils and can look very similar to ripples.  There are a number of papers written on microbial mats like “Porada  Ghergut Bouougri 2008 Kinneyia-type wrinkle structures - Critical review and model of formation” that give a good number of features for microbial mats and specifically Kinneyia-type wrinkle structures that indicate a microbial mat.  Below are pictures of two microbial mats in my collection.

 

Microbial mat, Pennsylvanian 305 MYA, Hartshorne Sandstone, Haskell County, Oklahoma (1,830 grams 15.2x6.5x.6 inches)

 

 

2130641712_95Microbialmat9535USDPennsylvanian305MYAHartshorneSandstoneHaskellCountyOklahoma1830g15_2x6_5x.6inches1.thumb.JPG.e1552103c6a4d2c4c38d76d26a1fb656.JPG

 

498131636_95Microbialmat9535USDPennsylvanian305MYAHartshorneSandstoneHaskellCountyOklahoma1830g15_2x6_5x.6inches3.thumb.jpg.7655e8b8efbdfbd398d09d61b7a72150.jpg

 

955109205_95Microbialmat9535USDPennsylvanian305MYAHartshorneSandstoneHaskellCountyOklahoma1830g15_2x6_5x.6inches1b.jpg.429226665be87d47db94bb43cbeb80f5.jpg

 

 

 

Microbial mat, Mississippian 358.9 to 323.2 MYA, Tar Springs Formation, Perry County, Indiana (22 grams 60x40x5mm)

 

 

117572202_104Algae19.11USDMississippian358.9to323.2MYATarSpringsFormationPerryCountyIndiana22g60x40x5mm1.jpg.caade98e53534b84a770846dd6fbffc4.jpg

 

1800947777_104Algae19.11USDMississippian358.9to323.2MYATarSpringsFormationPerryCountyIndiana22g60x40x5mm2.thumb.jpg.9b0d7b76986dd90de75e75f6354fb932.jpg

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

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"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

image.png.9a941d70fb26446297dbc9dae7bae7ed.png image.png.41c8380882dac648c6131b5bc1377249.png

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12 hours ago, OzarkQuarry said:

Hello- I just introduced myself in the new member forum but I wanted to reply specifically to this thread. While my husband hand-cuts our sandstone, he has uncovered some beautiful, ripple mark stones. Thanks!

ancient_ripple_marks.JPG

fossil_ripple_wave.JPG

Nice ripples. They would make interesting stepping stones in a yard. 
 

Do any of them have foot prints or claw marks? Also look out for raindrop prints and salt crystal impressions.

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My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned.   

See my Arizona Paleontology Guide    link  The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere.       

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Thanks for the pictures of the microbial mats. That is a new term to me and very interesting. We have never seen claw prints but have a few stones with trilobite marks. 

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On 1/21/2023 at 12:38 PM, OzarkQuarry said:

Thanks for the pictures of the microbial mats. That is a new term to me and very interesting. We have never seen claw prints but have a few stones with trilobite marks. 

 

I don't see any microbial mats in the pieces that I can see in your pictures, but the ripples are really cool.  When I just searched online auction site under "ripple marks" 3 pieces showed.  The one from the Permian of EL Pueblo looks more like a microbial mat than ripple marks.  However you have to take measurements of the raised features to be sure. EDIT: I decided to purchase the piece from EL Pueblo.  See the below picture.

 

Most likely Microbial Mat, early Permian , El Pueblo New Mexico

 

 

1807721545_192MicrobialMatearlyPermianElPuebloNewMexico13inches52_651.thumb.jpg.4737d9af88cbadbf344a8aad0214bc00.jpg

 

 

 

Marco Sr.

"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

image.png.9a941d70fb26446297dbc9dae7bae7ed.png image.png.41c8380882dac648c6131b5bc1377249.png

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