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akazaran

Mongolian fossils on the web

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akazaran

Hi everyone,

I was surprised to find a few nice mongolian fossils availables for sale on a well-known website (I dont know if it is allowed to give the name of the website here). including a protoceratops skull and a tarbosaur toe with claw. I am very surpised that they take the chance to put that for sale on theyr website (especially since I think that it is a us seller) and I was wondering if everything has changed regarding the fossil legislation in Mongolia...

 

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Macrophyseter

Chances are, if those listings are still up in a presumably well-known selling platform, its likely that its either one of two things

1. It's a fake, reconstruction, etc

2. It's been exported before the banning of fossil exports in Mongolia, in which case the country can have little say about what happens to such.

 

However, there have been incidents of Mongolian fossils indeed being illegally exported and sold on well-known platforms, an example of this would be one incident culminating into the 2013 court case United States v. One Tyrannosaurus Bataar Skeleton.

 

 

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JohnJ
4 hours ago, akazaran said:

(I dont know if it is allowed to give the name of the website here).

 

No, we do not allow the seller's website or name to be mentioned.  We also restrict any commentary about sellers.    ;)

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jpc

I just googled 'protoceratops skull for sale' and the first two hits are casts.  But I had to read pretty far down to find out they were casts.  

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dinosaur man

It might be a fake I’ve have seen the stuff and one of there theropod claws from France turned out to be a crab claw

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-Andy-

There are indeed dealers online who openly sell genuine Mongolian fossils. The law regarding export of these fossils has not changed. Those dealers are either trying their luck, have very old stock before the fossil ban, or are in a country which doesn't restrict the sale of such fossils

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Demetrios

I have seen a Protoceratops skull for sale online as well, but it is not there anymore. I do own one. Brought over from Mongolia before the ban went into place. Still trying to decide how to display the thing. 

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Troodon
9 minutes ago, Demetrios said:

Brought over from Mongolia before the ban went into place.

Just be aware the ban went into effect 1936

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Praefectus
8 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Just be aware the ban went into effect 1936

Was there a specific fossil ban that went into place in 1936. I thought fossil exports were banned in 1924 when they were angry at Roy Chapman Andrews for auctioning an oviraptor egg. 

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Troodon
1 minute ago, Praefectus said:

Was there a specific fossil ban that went into place in 1936. I thought fossil exports were banned in 1924 when they were angry at Roy Chapman Andrews for auctioning an oviraptor egg. 

Yes there was a specific ban I dont have the document in front of me.    My point was that it was a long time ago and have to believe that everything sold is very recent. 

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Demetrios

I believe it is anything after 1924. My piece was brought in prior, thank goodness. 

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Praefectus
39 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Yes there was a specific ban I dont have the document in front of me.    My point was that it was a long time ago and have to believe that everything sold is very recent. 

Agreed

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Righteous
1 hour ago, Demetrios said:

I have seen a Protoceratops skull for sale online as well, but it is not there anymore. I do own one. Brought over from Mongolia before the ban went into place. Still trying to decide how to display the thing. 

Send it to me I’ll display it for you 

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Bobby Rico
9 hours ago, Demetrios said:

I believe it is anything after 1924. My piece was brought in prior, thank goodness. 

I was wondering how do you know when it was exported? I have seen other banned items on our favourite auction website with the disclaimer “exported before the ban” but the sellers never show the proof or do I think the auction site ask to see any evidence. I am sure yours is legit 100% but I was thinking it would be useful to know what to ask a seller in the future with regarding evidence to back their claims of  “before the ban” 

I have also noticed a lot of sellers are confused with the location of Mongolia and think it is part of China ( Inner Mongolia) and quote Chinese rulings. 

cheers Bobby 

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Demetrios

I have a letter and some documentation from the original owner who brought it out of there and took it to England, and then finally to the US much later. It's not the most extensive paperwork but I think it would hold up under scrutiny. Historical documents back up his story. 

 

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Pemphix

You may refer to a short article about that topic here (p. 47-49 by Mr. George Winters) :

https://www.aaps.net/pdf/2020-AAPS-fossil-guide-lo-res-with-bleed.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0G3a-kN00eVrgXVoGbEvikABuZHc9g_Dww3E7WYr_wISqsK-hZQzd5Vd8

Nevertheless, i think confirmation that the fossil is from before the ban (?1924), would be very difficult, so i would stay away from mongolia fossils in general...

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Bobby Rico
1 hour ago, Demetrios said:

I have a letter and some documentation from the original owner who brought it out of there and took it to England, and then finally to the US much later. It's not the most extensive paperwork but I think it would hold up under scrutiny. Historical documents back up his story. 

 

That’s great and apart from it been important to have this paper work. I also think it is really interesting to know the collecting part of your fossil history too.

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