dinosaur man Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Hi is this a tyrannosaur tooth from the horseshoe canyon formation? It’s 1.2cm Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compy Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Hi dinosaur man, can you please provide a photo of the base of the tooth? This might help with id'ing the tooth. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Might not be at that size it's a Indet. theropod. Could be from a Dromaeosaurid or other smaller theropod as well as Tyrannosaurid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 Here’s the best photo I can get of the base @Compy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 They also said it was from a Aublysodon Mirandus if that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, dinosaur man said: They also said it was from a Aublysodon Mirandus if that helps Not a valid species. Small isolated Premaxillary teeth are very difficult to assign to a genus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 The base mesurments are 0.4 and 0.6 cm so that should rule out raptor or any other small theropod could be tyrannosaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, dinosaur man said: The base mesurments are 0.4 and 0.6 cm so that should rule out raptor or any other small theropod could be tyrannosaur Why,? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 @Troodon Because that means the base is too thick for raptor witch have skinnier teeth tyrannosaurs have more robust fat teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Look I'm not saying it's not a tyrannosaurid but there are other theropods it could fit. My Acheroraptor premax teeth are 13 mm high with a base of 5mm wide and 4mm thick. You have cf Saurornitholestes, cf Richardoestesia or cf. Dromaeosaurus that can have that size or bigger teeth. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Thanks @Troodon and @Compy. for now I will call it theropod indet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arion Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I would suggest this might actually be a hadrosaur tooth, especially based on the first picture. This tooth looks more concave than curved to me, flattened at the top rather than pointed, and with asymmetrical carinae (...if that's the right term for anterior and posterior ridges on hadrosaur teeth, i'm a bit rusty; you can see the difference in the second and third pictures). I think the photo Compy probably had in mind was not a closeup of the base of the tooth but actually turning it over so we can see the bottom of it, essentially the cross-section of the tooth. Tyrannosaur teeth have a unique cross-sectional morphology, so it would help with identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 @Arion but the ridge on my tooth is curved yours is straight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 @Arion If you look at this tyrannosaur tooth and compare it to my tooth it looks very similar this is why I think it’s tyrannosaur and there’s more like this too that looks similar to mine if you compare it to your hadrosaur tooth it’s fairly different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arion Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, dinosaur man said: @Arion but the ridge on my tooth is curved yours is straight I'd chalk that up to a bit of distortion. 2 hours ago, dinosaur man said: @Arion If you look at this tyrannosaur tooth and compare it to my tooth it looks very similar this is why I think it’s tyrannosaur and there’s more like this too that looks similar to mine if you compare it to your hadrosaur tooth it’s fairly different Personally I think both of those are hadrosaur teeth. Hadrosaur teeth do tend to have some curvature to them: I think these are a better match for what you have here. Tyrannosaur teeth are almost always D-shaped in cross section and have prominent serrations, two features I'm not seeing in your tooth. (disclaimer: all images in this thread not mine, from quick Google image search for "hadrosaur tooth"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Interesting view of these premaxillary teeth but they are clearly from an indeterminate theropod. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arion Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, TyBoy said: Interesting view of these premaxillary teeth but they are clearly from an indeterminate theropod. Out of curiosity, what makes it clear to you that dinosaur man's teeth are clearly theropod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyBoy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Well for one it looks like a premax tooth, has enamel all around, two cutting edges on both sides with a slight center ridge and one edge looks like it has worn serrations . Hadro teeth have only enamel on their face with a prominent center ridge. The rear is part of their root structure lacking enamel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arion Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I think I see where you're coming from, and perhaps you're right; I think a cross-sectional photo of the base and some better-lit photos from a couple more angles would be helpful. However I'm still not convinced. Taking these Albertosaurus sarcophagus premaxillary teeth from the Horseshoe Canyon Formation (from Torices, Reichel, and Curry, 2014) as an example, the anterior carina is positioned next to the posterior carina on the lingual side of the tooth (E). If we interpret the first picture in the OP as a theropod tooth in lingual view, there is some resemblance with (E), but there are still two distinct carinae on the Albertosaurus tooth and only one in the first picture of dinosaur man's tooth (similar to the Brachylophosaurus tooth I posted). If we interpret the second and third images in the OP as lateral views of a theropod tooth (as with A-D and F below), the issue we then find is that dinosaur man's tooth has prominent asymmetrical carinae in places they don't exist in the Albertosaurus teeth. However, if we interpret the second image as being from the same angle as the Edmontosaurus teeth on the hand in my second post, we see that both have a single sinuate carina that subtly bifurcates about halfway down the tooth leaving a shallow inverted V-shaped surface near the base. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269574990_Multivariate_analysis_of_isolated_tyrannosaurid_teeth_from_the_Danek_Bonebed_Horseshoe_Canyon_Formation_Alberta_Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Arion said: prominent serrations Not true, smaller tyrannosaurid premaxillary teeth can be found without serrations. In fact the nomen dubium tyrannosaurid Aublysodon was originally described as a tooth taxon because it lacked serrations. The OP tooth may not be a tyrannosaurid and serrations are not always present on both carina for other species. Weak or worn ones are evident on one edge. I really dont understand how you are trying to identify the OP tooth as a hadrosaur tooth. Nothing in its morphology says hadrosaur and it's not even close. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arion Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Troodon said: Not true, smaller tyrannosaurid premaxillary teeth can be found without serrations. In fact the nomen dubium tyrannosaurid Aublysodon was originally described as a tooth taxon because it lacked serrations. The OP tooth may not be a tyrannosaurid and serrations are not always present on both carina for other species. Weak or worn ones are evident on one edge. I really dont understand how you are trying to identify the OP tooth as a hadrosaur tooth. Nothing in its morphology says hadrosaur and it's not even close. I’ve posted a couple of examples and cited specific features that suggest to me that this may be a hadrosaur tooth, in addition to providing a published example of tyrannosaur premax teeth from the same formation to show why I don’t believe it’s a tyrannosaur tooth. Dinosaur man has not yet posted clearer pictures that I think would be helpful here. No other examples of comparable theropod premaxillary teeth have been posted or referenced for comparison. As I said I may be totally wrong about this, I’m just calling it like I see it with the information available. It may very well be an indeterminate small theropod, I’d just like to see some better-lit pictures to be convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 I will try to get some better photos thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinosaur man Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Here @Arion I have these for now a tyrannosaur premax tooth top and the one I’m trying to get ID bottom hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arion Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Haha wow ok NOW I see. Yes, I am inclined to agree with @Troodon and @TyBoy, theropod premax tooth makes sense. Bit of a brain fart there. I also went back and played with the brightness/contrast in the original photos, that cleared up some of my misconceptions. What was throwing me off initially I think was a combination of lighting suggesting morphological elements that aren’t actually there and the bluntness of the tip in the first image (which I know can happen for a variety of reasons in theropod teeth, and which in some cases is even just more common premax teeth I believe), in addition to what I mentioned earlier. Nevertheless, my conclusion was inaccurate. So at this point I think the most useful comment I can make is that I’m fairly certain this tooth is not Albertosaurus ; but beyond that I can’t offer any other suggestions as to what it might be. Do you have this tooth in your possession or are you looking at acquiring it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pemphix Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Definitely Theropod indet. - and no Hadro ! Sorry to be late in here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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