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  1. Seller said it's from the Hell Creek formation, Powder River County, MT.
  2. Hello, I wanted to ask if someone could help me identify the fossil shown in the attached photos? I've been told that it might be a juvenile tyrannosaur or nanotyrannus, but since I'm new to theropod claws wanted to ask the community. Any help would be really appreciated 🙏
  3. Brevicollis

    Tyrannosaurus Rex, or Nano tooth ?

    Hello, I was offered this 3,8 cm or 1,5 inch long Tyrannosauridae tooth from the hell creek formation of Montana, Garfield county, and wondered if its really "the king" or its smaller cousin. The base doesnt show the pinch I would expect from Nano teeth, but appears to be a bit slender compared to T-Rex teeth. Maybe its just the jaw position, teeth can variy after that, and also after how old the animal was. Young Rex teeth are different than adult ones. The tooth is also not complete, as its completly missing the transition between it and the root, so we have to work with a partial. And also, the broken ends also could appear like a pinch because of the distance of the enamel, but it really is an "0" shape. T-Rex maxilary tooth ? Saw one in Troodons guide, base shape looked quite similar. I just wanted to make sure, its really one. @hadrosauridae, @ThePhysicist, @North, @JorisVV, your help is appreciated If it should be Nano, I just turn to the side who doesnt believe in the existence of it. Problem solved
  4. Brevicollis

    What kind of Tyrannosaurid tooth ?

    Hello, I came across this affordable Tyrannosaurid tooth from the Judith River formation, hill county, Montana, and wondered if there is a chance for it beeing a small Rex. Its 2,5 cm or 0,99 inches long, has a quite used tip, and appears to be quite thick for its sice. Im also not seeing the typical Nano pinch at the base, but maybe thats because the picture taken from it is angeled. @hadrosauridae, @ThePhysicist, can you help here, please ?
  5. Hi y'all, about a year ago I started digital sculpting on my tablet and began with some Devonian "shark" teeth, inspired by ones in my collection (see topic here). Several months later after becoming more familiar with the process, I decided to try my hand at dinosaur skulls. In particular, I wanted to render the juvenile Tyrannosaurid, "Jane" (BMRP 2002.4.1) since regardless of your stance on the species, it's an important and cool fossil. Here I present my amateur first pass. My end goal is to have a 1:1 scale 3D print. And for you Tyranno-nerds, yes it accurately has incisiform premaxillary teeth with a lingual apicobasal ridge. To get the shape of all the teeth right, I referenced a couple in my collection. They were duplicated and squashed around to match the variation in morphology of the dentition. I also uploaded the model for you to interact with; honest critiques are welcome as it's not a final version I feel is ready for full scale printing. Certain aspects of the anatomy, especially the hard-to-see interior portions are probably where most errors lie. In December, I however did print a smaller scale to see how it looked: The nice thing about digital sculpting is that I can copy the entire skull and very readily reshape it into a similar one. The natural choice is to do a young juvenile / baby T. rex. This is as much a hypothesis as it is art. I based it off of the Witmer Lab's more rigorous reconstruction of "Chomper", and a similarly-sized young Tarbosaurus (which was a close cousin of T. rex). I again uploaded the model for your enjoyment / inspection: Next, I decided to wander much farther from Tyrannosaurs and shape it into a Troodontid, Pectinodon bakkeri. Of course Pectinodon is only known from its teeth, so I at least got the shape of those right (again, based off of a fossil in my collection). The rest was inspired by the reconstructions of others, presumably informed by more completely-known Troodontids. And finally, a sneak peak of what I'll be working on, Acheroraptor temertyorum. This time it's from scratch since there are some things I want to do differently. Thanks for reading, hope you enjoyed!
  6. Brevicollis

    Rex or Nano tooth ?

    Hello, as my budget increases, this complete surface find and worn Tyrannosaur tooth comes very close. But its listed as Nanotyrannus, and not Rex. But after I've read a guide on Tyrannosaur teeth idenification, im pretty sure its a young Rex, as im not seeing the typical Nano pinch at the base, but I think the tooth is also too bend for Rex. Which side are you on ? Sice : 1 inch Formation : Hell Creek, South Dakota, and before you ask for the County : Sorry, but no County was named. @FB003, @North, any Ideas ?
  7. Hello, I am trying to identify if this is a T. rex tooth. It's described as "natural juvenile Tyrannosaurus tooth". Location: Hell Creek Formation, Montana. Dimensions: Height: 4.3 cm Width: 3.8 cm I've read this awesome post by troodon, and I'm leaning towards T. rex ("fat" and rounded tip) - but looking forward to seeing your opinions as well. Thanks and have an awesome day ahead!
  8. Just saw this on a Facebook a preprint just released from a very prestigious dinosaur paleontologist Nicholas Longrich. From the abstract "Here, we review multiple lines of evidence and show that the totality of evidence strongly supports recognition of Nanotyrannus as a distinct species." "placement of Nanotyrannus outside of Tyrannosauridae as a non-tyrannosaurid member of Tyrannosauroidea." https://osf.io/preprints/paleorxiv/nc6tk/?fbclid=IwAR3_YkPSpKBQXk5Aiff0sJRKsl59dIqqO5DXveSjV-tx24Vs6ZLuRZdcaHs
  9. Howdy all. I've discussed the relationships between Nanotyrannus and Appalachiosaurus to albertosaurines and to eachother before, and today I'm wondering if relationships could be determined by the shape of their teeth. Comparing the teeth of nanotyrannus and appalachiosaurus, they are very similar to eachother, almost identical. They are also relatively similar to the teeth of gorgosaurus, though not as much. I believe it's already been established that these animals are relatively closely related, but I think this to be extra evidence to the case. (These fossils are not mine)
  10. Josh_irving

    Identifying Tyrannosaurid Tooth

    Hello Everyone, I bought this tooth nearly ten years ago as a Albertosaurus tooth from the Two Medicine formation, Montana, U.S.A. Whilst updating my labels I have learnt that Albertosaurus is not found in the Two Medicine Formation. As a result, i am asking if anyone can ID this tooth (i know it is very difficult or more likely impossible). I believe it is either a Distal Maxillary or a Distal Dentary tooth. The MC is 18 whilst the DC is 16 which gives it a DSDI of 1.125. The tooth is 2.90cm tall and the base of it is 1.22cm by 0.86cm. the link to some fairly high quality photos is: Tooth Id - Imgur thanks in advance, Josh
  11. Frightmares

    IMG_6629.jpeg

    From the album: Dinosaur Teeth

  12. Frightmares

    IMG_6630.jpeg

    From the album: Dinosaur Teeth

  13. Hi guys, I made this post about this small theropod tooth from the lance creek formation, Wyoming, USA. I bought it years ago and it was sold to me as belonging to a dromaeosaurid. It doesn't seem to me that it corresponds to any "raptor", but to a baby of Tyrannosaurus rex/Nanotyrannus lacensis. What do you say? Thanks in advance! Ps: the tooth is 1,2 cm/0.47 inch long and 0,6 cm/0.24 inch wide.
  14. Updated Nov 25, 2022 Collectors, online sellers and some dealers periodically ask me to help them in the identification of tyrannosaur type teeth. So I thought I would put together a guide from Western North America (US/Canada) to help in identification. The following is the current understanding of those Tyrannosaurids described/known with the stratigraphic unit where they are found. If I missed any let me know. Albertosaurus sarcophagus : Horseshoe Canyon Formation cf Albertosaurus indet: Wapiti Formation Gorgosaurus libratus : Dinosaur Park Formation Gorgosaurus sp. or cf Gorgosaurus: Two Medicine Formation, Oldman Formation, Foremost Formation, Daspletosaurus horneri : Two Medicine Formation Daspletosaurus wilsoni: Judith River Formation Daspletosaurus torosus : Oldman Formation Daspletosaurus sp. or cf Daspletosaurus: Dinosaur Park Formation Dynamoterror dynastes: Menefee Formation Tyrannosaurus rex : Hell Creek Formation, Lance Formation, Frenchman Formation, Scollard Formation, Denver Formation, (Trex fossils are also known from: Livingstone Fm, Laramie Fm, McRae Fm, Willow Creek Fm) Tyrannosaurus sp.: Javelina Formation, Ojo Formation Nanotyrannus lancensis : Hell Creek Formation, Lance Formation cf Nanotyrannus : Frenchman Formation, Scollard Formation, Denver Formation Thanatotheristes degrootorum : Foremost Formation Tyrannosaurid indet. (spp): Judith River Formation, Mesaverde Formation (Group), Fruitland Formation, Aguja Formation Teratophoneus curriei: Kaiparowits Formation Lythronax argestes: Wahweap Formation Nanuqsaurus hoglundi: Prince Creek Formation Tooth Identification Aublysodon mirandus Premaxillary teeth, those without serrations. This dinosaur is considered nomen dubium and teeth ascribed to it belong to other Tyrannosaurs. Albertosaurus sarcophagus Probably the easiest to identify since its the only Tyrannosaurid described from the Horseshoe Canyon Formation. The most important item in acquiring one of these teeth is the provenance of where it was found. Alberta is not adequate to identify it. You need a specific locality like Drumheller or Tolman Bridge. BTW this is true for all the Tyrannosaurid's discussed in this topic. A disposition is also needed for all dinosaur teeth removed from Alberta. These teeth can get quite large from collection of SMM Gorgosaurus libratus (cf, sp.) The first step in identification is Provenance: you need to know State/Province along with the County (USA) or Locality (Canada) where the tooth was found. Differentiating isolated teeth between Gorgosaurus and Daspletosaurus is very difficult and in most cases its indeterminate. A paper that came out in 2005 which was authored by Phil Currie et al. studied isolated teeth from this period looking at tooth and serration morphology. Their conclusion was that "it is difficult to quantifiably distinguish these teeth reliably by taxon". Therefore identifying them as Tyrannosaurid indet. is the easiest approach in those faunas that Gorgosaurus may be present? There is a quantitative process described in a new paper that may help which will be discussed later. Please note that lots of collectors would like to use size to differentiate these teeth from Daspletosaurus. However Gorgosaurus teeth can get quite large as seen in this photo of a Maxilla with one tooth which is over 3 inches and located in the back of this jaw. Daspletosaurus horneri, D. wilsoni, D. torosus (cf, sp.) The first step in identification is Provenance: you need to know State/Province along with the County (USA) or Locality (Canada) where the tooth was found. A paper that came out in 2005 which was authored by Phil Currie et al. studied isolated teeth from this period looking at tooth and serration morphology. Their conclusion was that "it is difficult to quantifiably distinguish these teeth reliably by taxon". Therefore identifying them as Tyrannosaurid indet. is the easiest approach in those faunas that Daspletosaurus may be present? However, its reasonable to say that teeth over 4" are PROBABLY from a Daspletosaurus. There is a quantitative process described in a new paper that may help which will be discussed later. *****Since the Judith River and Two Medicine Formations fall within the range of all three of these species its going to be difficult to assign teeth to a specific species unless you know the age of the deposit it. Denver Fowler: "Hill County exposures are more easy to date because there we have the boundary between the upper Oldman Fm and the lower part of the Dinosaur Park Fm. Havre exposures were called Judith River Fm historically, but we should probably use Oldman & Dino Park now." And maybe ditto for those teeth found in the Belly River Group of Alberta. Denver Fowler "I expect that D. wilsoni is stratigraphically equivalent to the lower part of the Dinosaur Park Formation. At the moment this is based on the fact that the Judith in eastern Montana was deposited at the time when the WI seaway was receded at its maximum (in the Campanian)" Denver's response to my question on this subject. "There isn't currently any evidence for stratigraphic (time) overlap between the species. However, the 2Med and Judith River likely represent enough time such that it would be possible to find D. torosus in the Judith and both D. torosus and D. wilsoni in the 2Med." (Posted by Denver Fowler) Tyrannosaurus rex/ Nanotyrannus lancensis (cf, sp.) Whether you agree or disagree that Nanotyrannus is a valid taxon what is very clear to me is that we have two distinct morphologies of tyrannosaurid teeth at the very end,of the cretaceous. I can say that because I have handled over 1000 teeth over the years ranging from 3 mm to 5 inches two morphs are present in all ranges up to around 2 inches. Serration density through sampling I've done with teeth in my collection do not appear by itself to be a differentiator between these two morphologies. Density will change with size becoming less on larger teeth and can be the same with equivalent size teeth with both morphologies. DSDI (Denticle Size Difference Index) is also not a differentiator and through my sampling and Carr (2004) and indicates that DSDIs decrease in progressively larger specimens, that is, there are fewer mesial denticles per given unit length than distal denticles in large specimens and there are as many or more mesial than distal denticles in small specimens. Also, the DSDI among dentary teeth is higher than that in the maxilla, indicating that mesial denticles are smaller in the dentary than in the maxillary dentition. So how do you tell the difference between these two morphologies. Well, if a tooth is larger than 2 1/2" and has bulk its clearly T rex, regardless of what the serrations say. It cannot be anything else. With small teeth since serrations density is not a differentiator the other characteristic of the tooth plays a key role. I've found that maxillary teeth can be the most difficult to differentiate and a few teeth are just indeterminate, at least with me. The best way to distinguish between the two morphology the shape at the base, compression of the crown and tip and if there is a pinch at the base. Shape at the base T rex dentary teeth and the very anterior maxillary teeth are oval at the base while Nano teeth are unique as tyrannosaurids and rectangular. However, T rex maxillary teeth can be rectangular so you will have to determine if there is a pinch at the base a characteristic found on Nanotyrannus teeth Here are examples of the cross sections of couple small Rex teeth under 1 1/2 inch and Adult Nano's Tyrannosaurus rex Dentary teeth are oval Maxillary Teeth are rectangular Nanotyrannus Bases are rectangular and show a pinch on both sides. Profile of the teeth is another characteristic Nanotyrannus teeth are compressed, with a pointed tip T rex teeth are fat, with a rounded tip, often the serrations wrap around from the mesial to distal carina to form a continuous carina Crown Height Ratios In the study I did, since nothing is published, with 30 Nanotyrannus teeth the average was 2.2 For Trex teeth the mean for Maxillary teeth is 1.75 and for Dentary its around 2 but all these can change depending on position Heterodonty in Tyrannosaurus rex: implications for the taxonomic and systematic utility of theropod dentitions Joshua B. Smith (2005) T rex Premaxillary Teeth can easily be confused with dentary D1 position. Here is a photo of how to determine what you have. Identifying Gorgosaurus and Daspeletosaurus Teeth using Dental Features A recent paper by Hendrickx et al. (Oct 2019) has provided us a way to try to identify certain teeth using dental features. Positional Daspletosaurus & Gorgosaurus teeth have distinct denticle features that can hopefully can be used to differentiate the species which currently does not exist. Together with @Omnomosaurus we are looking at studying this technique to determine if its a practical method for collectors to use for identification, obtain data on campanian tyrannosaurid teeth and try to understand if the results we are getting is any good? We will be using teeth from my collection and members for the study. @dinosaur man has a topic where a lot of member data will be collected. Step 1 The most critical part in using this process is knowing where the tooth sits in the jaw - Premaxillary, Mesial or Lateral Here is a photo of to help in determining its location Paper https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261630184_Morphometry_of_the_teeth_of_western_North_American_tyrannosaurids_and_its_applicability_to_quantitative_classification Step 2 DSDI (Denticle Size Difference Index) needs to be determined DSDI = MC / DC MC = Number of denticles per 5 mm on the mesial carina at mid-carina DC = Number of denticles per 5 mm on the distal carina at mid-crown Mesial Carina is on the outer curvature Distal Carina is on the inside curvature Step 3 1) If your tooth is from a lateral position in the jaw and your DSDI is <0.8 your tooth may be considered a Gorgosaurus or cf Gorgosaurus depending on the locality of where it was found. 2) If your tooth is from a Mesial position in the jaw and your DSDI is >1.2 your tooth may be considered a Daspletosaurus sp. or cf Daspletosaurus depending on the locality of where it was found. Premaxillary Teeth 1) In my opinion all these teeth should be identified as "Tyrannosaurid indet" 2) The paper does make the following statement "In the young specimens of Daspletosaurus, the carinae of the premaxillary teeth are unserrated (TMP 1994.143.1; Currie, 2003) and show the beaded condition. My concern is that it does not specify what size young teeth are and its looking at TMP 1994.143.1 which is a Daspletosaurus sp in Dinosaur Park Fm. Do all Daspletosaurus premax teeth in other faunas have contain similar features? Gorgosaurus premax teeth are not mentioned. Study Currently 33 teeth from the collection of Troodon, Omnomosaurus, dinosaur man Localities included : Judith River Formation (18 teeth), Two Medicine Formation (13 Teeth), Dinosaur Park Formation (1 Tooth), One unknown Results: 1) None of the lateral teeth have had DSDI < 0.8 and could be described as Gorgosaurus 2) Three of the Mesial teeth had DSDI > 1.2 and could be described as Daspletosaurus 3) One of the Premaxillary teeth was not serrated but could not verify if it was a young tooth 4) So 9% of the population can be tentatively assigned Hendrickx et al paper https://palaeo-electronica.org/content/2019/2806-dental-features-in-theropods
  15. Do you think its possible that nanotyrannus and tyrannosaurus could've shared a similar relationship to lions and hyenas where they would hunt at different hours to avoid competition? (Lions and hyenas hunt the same prey, but lions hunt at night whereas hyenas hunt at day.)
  16. Hi All, Completely new to the world of fossil collecting and starting small and safe with teeth! But I’m conscious that there are a lot of fakes out there so to be safe I’ve completely written off the popular, colourful Auction site. I have two fossils at the moment (please see my other real/fake post!) which I decided to buy off a website. They are well regarded on local groups and forums so seemed like the proper way of buying my first fossils. In hindsight, I may have naively rushed into the purchases out of excitement without getting opinions from TFF (more because I didn’t know this place existed!). My second fossil was, a small Nanotyrannus tooth. The stated information is given below: Nanotyrannnus lancensis Hell Creek Formation, Maastrican, Powder River County, Montana, USA I do hope they are genuine, but I’d rather know the truth if they aren’t. If it is real, I’d also been keen to know any insight on condition, features, opinions you all may have! Finally, if anyone has any recommended sites/auctioneers etc. to find good quality fossils, feel free to PM me as any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
  17. ThePhysicist

    Juvenile T. rex tooth

    From the album: Hell Creek / Lance Formations

    Interesting blue color near the base, and some feeding wear at the tip of this immature Tyrannosaurid tooth.
  18. Hello, I was doing a study on the T. rex and Nanotyrannus teeth specimens I had, and I wanted to compare them against a list of known T. rex teeth with measurement. The paper: Dental Morphology and Variation in Theropod Dinosaurs: Implications for the Taxonomic Identification of Isolated Teeth (JOSHUA B. SMITH, DAVID R. VANN, AND PETER DODSON) contains a list of 115 T. rex teeth. To make it easier to compare and read the data, I combined the measurements into a single chart, added colors and lines for ease of reading, and added the size and names of the T. rex used in the study Feel free to refer to the below chart for T. rex teeth measurements. I had to split the chart into 2 due to size limitations, but if you want the full-sized PDF version (25 MB), please message me so I can send it to you by email. If you have any suggestions to improve readability, or have your own data to add, go ahead and post it here! I will be posting pics and measurements of my various T. rex and Nanotyrannus teeth here @Troodon
  19. ThePhysicist

    Tyrannosaur premaxillary tooth

    From the album: Hell Creek / Lance Formations

    This kind of incisor-like ("incisorform") tooth was originally thought to have belonged to a large, Cretaceous mammal. Later discoveries revealed that these teeth were actually the front teeth ("premaxillary teeth") of Tyrannosaurs - and are now known as a hallmark of their clade, Tyrannosauroidea. Closely-spaced, parallel grooves on bones suggest that Tyrannosaurs used these teeth to scrape meat from bone. Given the size, this is from a very young animal. Should Nanotyrannus be valid, then this should be considered an indeterminate Tyrannosaurid.
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