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Hi again!

 

Over the weekend, I posted pictures of small fossils in a rock I found at Mimico Creek in Toronto, Ontario (Georgian Bay Formation, Upper Ordovician).  I've created this new post just for the shiny black specimens that I found in the rock because a consensus wasn't reached regarding their identity.  Each of the two specimens pictured below are 5mm long.  My question is:  are these items scolecodonts or conodonts?  I was leaning towards scolecodonts but I wanted to see what others have to say...

 

DSC01309.thumb.JPG.c94c3d98e0814bc665e4fc82627c8aa2.JPG

 

Thanks once again!

 

Monica

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I would agree with scolecodont. They look thicker than conodont elements I’ve seen, although this isn’t super diagnostic. Hopefully someone has a more scientific explanation. Nice finds!

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26 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Guess you've already seen this, Monica? 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/76863-out-of-print-georgian-bay-formation-book-arrived/

Not that it's of immediate help. 

 

Well, actually, Adam, I think this does help!  Not the Georgian Bay Formation book, but the response made by @doushantuo in the link you provided - he included pictures of Ontario Silurian scolecodont jaws that were the focus of a study by Eriksson in 2015, and mine look like those!!!  So, I think it's probably safe to say that I found scolecodont jaws and not conodonts.  (I must have missed this the first time you posted the link - oops!!!)

 

Thanks! :fistbump:

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51 minutes ago, connorp said:

I would agree with scolecodont. They look thicker than conodont elements I’ve seen, although this isn’t super diagnostic. Hopefully someone has a more scientific explanation. Nice finds!

 

Thanks for chiming in! :)

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And, looking at the following website: http://drydredgers.org/scolec2.htm, I think the little jaw in the lower righthand corner of the photo above belongs to the genus Oenonites

 

Edit:  The little jaw in the upper lefthand corner of the photo above might also belong to the genus Oenonites!  The photos below are the left and right jaws of Kettnerites (Kettnerites) abrahami abrahami - they look different but are from the same species, so perhaps that's also the case with my specimens pictured above?

(photos from http://www.rhyniechert.com/gotlandscolecodonts.html)

ketternites2-600x215.jpgketternites1-600x232.jpg

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absolutely no help with ID but now I want to go watch Tremors (which is in my Netflix queue).

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3 minutes ago, JamieLynn said:

absolutely no help with ID but now I want to go watch Tremors (which is in my Netflix queue).

 

I remember that movie - Kevin Bacon was in it, right?  It was scary to me when I watched it... :wacko:

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Tidgy's Dad
1 hour ago, Monica said:

And, looking at the following website: http://drydredgers.org/scolec2.htm

 

I think the little jaw in the lower righthand corner of the photo above belongs to the genus Oenonites sp. 

Hmmm. 

I looked at this before, but the genus is really tiny. 

From Fossiilid, the scale bar is 0.1 mm 

https://files.geocollections.info/large/51/9a/519acdfe-94d2-4ecd-82bc-2817aecfe7ac.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Hmmm. 

I looked at this before, but the genus is really tiny. 

From Fossiilid, the scale bar is 0.1 mm 

https://files.geocollections.info/large/51/9a/519acdfe-94d2-4ecd-82bc-2817aecfe7ac.jpg

 

Here's another website to check out: https://louisvillefossils.blogspot.com/2009/05/ordovician-worm-oenonites-scolecodont.html?m=1.  The fossil pictured looks very much like my specimens, and apparently it's also the same length (5mm), so perhaps they're just on the large side?  (That being said, I have no idea if the specimen pictured on this webpage is a scolecodont, either - it just seems that that's the most likely candidate.)

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That is a scolecodont , they are usually black, and are composed of chitin, which will not dissolve in either mild acids or bases. The Ordovician conodonts are usually amber or milky in color and are simple in shape and are composed of apatite . Conodonts tend to be smaller than scolecodonts.

Mississippian-Conodonts-Examples-1a.jpg

11-scolecodont2,U.jpg

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13 hours ago, Herb said:

That is a scolecodont , they are usually black. The Ordovician conodonts are usually amber or milky in color and are simple in shape

 

Thanks, Herb! :SlapHands:

 

13 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Here is the paper : 

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/39014447#page/446/mode/1up

What do you think, Monica? 

Thanks, @Herb

 

Looks good, Adam!  The paper even describes Enonites which seems like a good match for at least my lower righthand jaw (although I think is now referred to as Oenonites).

 

Thanks, Adam! :fistbump:

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Tidgy's Dad
6 hours ago, Monica said:

 

Thanks, Herb! :SlapHands:

 

Thanks, Adam! :fistbump:

Better use :

Image result for elbow bump emoji

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I don’t know what they are but I think those are great looking specimens of whatever they are! :envy:

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40 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Bette use :

Image result for elbow bump emoji

 

I figured that since we're many, many kilometres away from each other, it might be okay for high fives and fist bumps.  But you're right.  It should've been an elbow bump.  So sorry about that. :P

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7 minutes ago, Randyw said:

I don’t know what they are but I think those are great looking specimens of whatever they are! :envy:

 

Thanks, Randy!

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I hope you’re entering it into the fossil of the month competition!

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Tidgy's Dad
1 hour ago, Randyw said:

I hope you’re entering it into the fossil of the month competition!

Good point! :thumbsu:

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2 hours ago, Randyw said:

I hope you’re entering it into the fossil of the month competition!

 

2 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Good point! :thumbsu:

 

I might just do that - thanks for the support, guys! Image result for elbow bump emoji:)

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I'd urge everyone to read:

kielanscolecod1 (13).jpg


or:

 

 

 

Conodont Color Alteration an Index to Organic Metamorphism
By ANITA G. EPSTEIN, JACK B. EPSTEIN, and
LEONARD D. HARRIS 

(about 30 MB)

 

 US GEOLOGICAL SURVEY PROFESS I ONAL PAPER 995 

or:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

scole2675dd64c1850e0c2873a9f429c7e769.jpg

epstcousafd6019ut_0173.jpg

directly above is from the Epstein/Harris paper:

CAI,Vitrinite reflectance,graptolite periderm and palynomorph maturation are all used to assess thermal maturity,which is of course an important parameter in hydrocarbon

exploration

 

 

 

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