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RockFossil or FossilRock


Shellseeker

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Hunting today.  In an area which I had not previously found the rockfossil mix,  I found many of them.  Here are my most interesting. Here is one , which I believe is whole,  where I think I know the genus, and likely the species.  looking for confirmations... This is a miocene fossil ... 5 - 23 mya.

IMG_6002text.jpg.689ffbbfdb36d7029abaabf5f7cfa2d0.jpgIMG_6005Rock.jpg.2a40da91cc5dbc882da9efce3e42a7d4.jpg

 

And # 2 is a broken tooth,  Once again miocene fauna.Enamelside_text.jpg.850a45a9f75988f1386702399f9bd1af.jpgRockside.jpg.82eda1fec1b4d9f5444eab38e80607c0.jpg

 

and finally, one where I have no clue... This is an oddly shaped bone.... I am seeking the most basic clues.  Which bones look like this one?

IMG_6010Fossilsidetext.thumb.jpg.6324fc8c1f24beba6e973e81dc0b97ec.jpgIMG_6009Rockside.thumb.jpg.e1eb331ae977a2e4e689ffd7b05e79df.jpgIMG_6013.thumb.JPEG.5591e88442a5bf6773acddf2f8074b81.JPEG

 

As always, comments, suggestions, identifications are ALL appreciated!!!!  Please do.

 

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That last one is really interesting....:popcorn:

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Brett Breakin' Rocks
5 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

and finally, one where I have no clue... This is an oddly shaped bone.... I am seeking the most basic clues.  Which bones look like this one?

Hey Jack,

 

I'll dig up my reference images but that last one reminds me of a fish spine. Or possibly something a bit beefier from a billfish vert of some sort. Near the hypural bone.  

 

Cheers,

Brett

 

EDIT: The morphology is different but I suspect something fishy.

HaemalSpine_Billfish_Aglyptorhynchus_Oligocene_ChandlerBridge_001.thumb.jpg.504ec271fba96c4fc7f2d200c5f69b2b.jpgHaemalSpine_Billfish_Aglyptorhynchus_Oligocene_ChandlerBridge_002.jpg.949a80817c60a2ae07305aed9dba1b20.jpg

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8 hours ago, Brett Breakin' Rocks said:

Hey Jack,

 

I'll dig up my reference images but that last one reminds me of a fish spine. Or possibly something a bit beefier from a billfish vert of some sort. Near the hypural bone.  

 

Cheers,

Brett

Yes,  Brett...  Nice,  NICE !!!!  :SlapHands:

It seemed to look familiar but I could not quite connect,   similar but different from a catfish spine.  

From TFF Gallary

http://www.thefossilforum.com/uploads/1278642940/gallery_42_2_49936.jpg

:tiphat:Kudos for another Great picture from @Harry Pristis

image.png.9787c06fa19776dda94c6813ccfbee58.png

Quote

This is a dorsal fin spine with its basal supporting spine from a medium-size boney fish, a snook of the Family CENTROPOMIDAE. These two spines were found still articulated in Early Pleistocene mud. While snook are saltwater fish, they often are found - both as fossils and alive - in freshwater situations in Florida.

Here's what Robert L. Carroll says in his book, VERTEBRATE PALEONTOLOGY AND EVOLUTION:

 

The term spiny teleost (boney fish) refers to the fin spines that most members of this group possess. These are particularly conspicuous on the dorsal fin but also occur in the anal and paired [e.g. pectoral] fins. The stiff spines result from fusion of the two halves of primitively paired and jointed dermal fin rays into a median, unjointed structure. The spine loses its flexibility and is effectively moved as a unit by muscles attached to its base.

(This image is best viewed by clicking on the "options" button

on the upper right of this page => "view all sizes" => "large".)

Copyright

© &copyHarry Pristis 2010

 

I guess I am now searching for fish spines that match the wavy patterns on the "back". 

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Brett Breakin' Rocks
3 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Yes,  Brett...  Nice,  NICE !!!!  :SlapHands:

It seemed to look familiar but I could not quite connect,   similar but different from a catfish spine.  

From TFF Gallary

http://www.thefossilforum.com/uploads/1278642940/gallery_42_2_49936.jpg

:tiphat:Kudos for another Great picture from @Harry Pristis

image.png.9787c06fa19776dda94c6813ccfbee58.png

 

I guess I am now searching for fish spines that match the wavy patterns on the "back". 

Yeah, and you know ... it does feel a bit beefy ... I wonder if it could also be swollen as well. These fin spines can often be found suffering from hyperostosis. 

 

Cheers,

B

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I think your broken tooth could be gomphothere if I were to wager a guess. 

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38 minutes ago, PaleoNoel said:

I think your broken tooth could be gomphothere if I were to wager a guess. 

 

Thanks for your response.  :fistbump: .  Naturally, we find lots of broken stuff, but the only fauna that have enamel teeth almost 2 inches long are whale, gomphothere and rhino. This fragment is not whale, because it lacks banding and is not shape as a cone. Between Gomph and Rhino,  I am thinking it is Rhino because on the pattern lines on the outside of the tooth and because the thickness of the enamel tends to be narrower on Rhino than on Gomph.

If Rhino, it is Teleoceras proterum which lived in Bone Valley 9-12 mya.

Having said that, I still thought the possibility was 60/40  , Rhino over Gomph.

IMG_5577Rhino_Text.thumb.jpg.551e67a2e2bb4bd1788ad2f05571f625.jpg

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Hey Jack, very neat finds--especially like seeing them still with matrix attached even though some of the detail is hidden. 1 gives me the horse vibe...with the worn pattern showing a metaconid and metastylid.  Wondering if you get the same and might be thinking some pre-Equus type?  

 

Regards, Chris 

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7 hours ago, Plantguy said:

Hey Jack, very neat finds--especially like seeing them still with matrix attached even though some of the detail is hidden. 1 gives me the horse vibe...with the worn pattern showing a metaconid and metastylid.  Wondering if you get the same and might be thinking some pre-Equus type?  

 

Regards, Chris 

Chris,

Good to hear from you.  Hopefully you are getting opportunities to find interesting fossils.

I agree with your thoughts.  I think that this is Nannippus,  but I am unsure of the species.

Here is something from a Hulbert 1993 paper on Florida Nannippus species.

image.thumb.png.bc39a4364d0c59ef59798dcb0872522c.png

Back 3-4 years ago,  I managed to find a Blancan site that produced Nannippus peninsulatus.  In late 2017, a good friend , traded me for 5 teeth he had found in the Phosphate mines in the 1980s. Here is the thread: http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/77503-5-pre_equus-horse-teeth/

where I mis_identified one of them as a m3 left Nannippus peninsulatus, but Hulbert corrected me to a Nannippus aztecus left m3. N. peninsulatus on left is 19 mm APL, N. aztecus on right is 16 mm APL.

image.png.5910464d699406a004a20e6dd2fc1636.png

 

Note that on this new find in matrix, APL is 13 mm!!!!!! So these are the smallest horses that ever lived, and I just found one smaller than N. aztecus... I have sent an email to Richard Hulbert asking what he meant by "N. morgani is 15% to 20% smaller in dental parameters that the mean values for N. aztecus"

 

Life is good and exciting!!! I have not previously found a N. morgani tooth, and I would love my first one to be a lower right m3 with APL of 13 mm.:yay-smiley-1:

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Hey Jack, hoping Dr. Hulbert can confirm--that would be really sweet! Looking forward to hearing.... 

 

I do need to get out again...been quite a long time....but I think Im still not there...been messing with turtle pieces in the interim and  trying to learn about all those fragments we all encounter around here.....So many pieces and so many turtles/tortoises....LOL....

 

Regards, Chris  

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On 11/3/2020 at 10:11 PM, Plantguy said:

Hey Jack, hoping Dr. Hulbert can confirm--that would be really sweet! Looking forward to hearing.... 

Did get an answer  from Dr Hulbert

Quote

  I think the horse tooth is a m2 with the posteriorly expanded crown typical of unworn/slightly worn lower molars. Without a good worn occlusal surface I can’t eliminate Pseudhipparion as a possibility.

Can’t help you with the fish spine.

Richard

I am going to have to take a look at some of those small Pseudhipparions, especially P. skinneri.

 

When you go,  good hunting.  Jack

 

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