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Fossilized nut or fig?


Brachiopods

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Brachiopods

Hi all,

 

This fossil was found along one of the tributaries of the Crystal River in Florida

 

It appears to be some sort of fossilized fig or nut. Does anyone here have any ideas as to its age or species? 

A fossilized horse tooth and a Savannah River arrowhead were found nearby. I believe the arrowhead is more recent than the fossils. 

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5 hours ago, Brachiopods said:

It appears to be some sort of fossilized fig or nut.

Sorry, but I'm afraid "appears" isn't going to cut it. The shape also suggests coprolite. I think more conclusive evidence of either is going to be needed however, and I'm not certain it exists.

:popcorn: Maybe others will though. :Confused05:

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2 hours ago, abyssunder said:

Tilly bone

The texture seems wrong, especially if the cracked surface look is the result of weathering. 

 

17 hours ago, Brachiopods said:

arrowhead were found nearby.

Net throwing weight ? 

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Zenmaster6

Certainly not a nut or "fig" 

As far as what it is I'm not sure, but if it were me hunting out there and I saw this, I'd leave it right there. Suggestive shape but appears more Geologic

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Brachiopods
On 2/20/2021 at 5:58 PM, Zenmaster6 said:

Certainly not a nut or "fig" 

As far as what it is I'm not sure, but if it were me hunting out there and I saw this, I'd leave it right there. Suggestive shape but appears more Geologic


With that kind of approach you'll be missing a lot of fossils. 

I am quite confident that this specimen is a potential fossil. The structural integrity of the surface is quite sound. The lines are not cracks, nor do they seem like striations caused by weathering, but rather the patterns one might observe on organic skin or other biological material. There are pitting marks on the surface as would be typically observed in a desiccated fruit. The specimen was found in a site that has yielded many tertiary fossils over the years. 

Whole fossilized fruits do not seem to come up commonly on the internet, so there is not much basis for easy comparison. Here, for example, is a fossilized palm fruit from a much older era (Cretaceous): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spinifructus_antiquus_fruits_01.jpg. I was hoping that a member of this forum might have some experience in this field. Without any comparisons brought up, however, I see no basis for a premature affirmation or rejection. 

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10 minutes ago, Brachiopods said:

Here, for example, is a fossilized palm fruit

I think the most viable proposal would be that it represents an internal mold, otherwise stated as natural cast, of the inside of a nut shell. Establishing the known presence of such preservation in the area would be useful. It seems like the sort of thing that is generally either absent or common.

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4 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

I think the most viable proposal would be that it represents an internal mold, otherwise stated as natural cast, of the inside of a nut shell. Establishing the known presence of such preservation in the area would be useful. It seems like the sort of thing that is generally either absent or common.

By the way, I think it is fairly common in plant fossils from the Hell Creek.

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bthemoose

I wonder if this is possibly a worn whale tooth. The texture looks similar to the roots on some I’ve seen on here, though I don’t see any enamel. Perhaps @Shellseeker would have thoughts on this one?

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Zenmaster6

It does not "look" geologic because its shape looks very biological.

However the sheen on the rock looks very hard and metamorphic but not in the "agatized" or "silica petrified" kinda way.

It looks like chert to me. 

I'd lean more towards a Native American tool or "portable rock art" before I said Fossil

maybe like a fishing weight.

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HuckMucus

It may seem counterintuitive to an expert, but as a lay person, it's not actually the shape that makes it look biological to me.  Although the shape does look like a turd, that's not what steers my view.  It's actually that sheen combined with the non-angular, smooth ridges on the edges of the cracks, and the way those cracks run.  It does almost look metallic, like tarnished brass (especially at the tip), but I've seen fossils that look that way too.  Witness the tooth right next to it.

 

I'm not putting any money on my impression, though.

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Zenmaster6
3 minutes ago, HuckMucus said:

It may seem counterintuitive to an expert, but as a lay person, it's not actually the shape that makes it look biological to me.  Although the shape does look like a turd, that's not what steers my view.  It's actually that sheen combined with the non-angular, smooth ridges on the edges of the cracks, and the way those cracks run.  It does almost look metallic, like tarnished brass (especially at the tip), but I've seen fossils that look that way too.  Witness the tooth right next to it.

 

I'm not putting any money on my impression, though.

Yes however, if you can find me a photo of a nut or fruiting body of any fossil with a sheen, I will be very perplexed. 

The horse tooth has a sheen because it bears enamel and this enamel would not be present on any kind of plant matter.

You mentioned the shape doesn't steer your view, however your original post was asking whether it was a nut or a fig. 
If this was a regular rock with the same sheen and striations, I'd imagine you'd leave it where it was. 

Look up Concretions and manganese crystals. These are two examples of fossil like shapes but happen to be geologic, or perhaps the infamous turtle coprolites from Washington state. 
They ended up being mudballs that looks identical to coprolite that even the university of Washington made an article claiming they were indeed turtle poop until years later they found them to be mud 

Of course the only way to tell would be to take it into the nearest museum and have an expert look at it, or have one of our higher members look at it such as Rockwood, Kane, JohnJ, Ynot and others who spent millions of hours staring at rocks lol.

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3 minutes ago, HuckMucus said:

It does almost look metallic, like tarnished brass (especially at the tip), but I've seen fossils that look that way too.  

Unfortunately minerals that would cause the look need not be related to fossilization. It can be an indication, but I wouldn't trust it alone, as proof.

 

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Zenmaster6

A huge thing it lacks that almost all fossils, and life for that matter, have is symmetry 

 

My verdict is geologic

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HuckMucus
19 minutes ago, Zenmaster6 said:

You mentioned the shape doesn't steer your view, however your original post was asking whether it was a nut or a fig. 


If this was a regular rock with the same sheen and striations, I'd imagine you'd leave it where it was. 

 

My original post said nothing about a nut or a fig.  You confuse me with another.

 

I've never seen a regular rock with those sheens and striations.  That's my point.

 

 

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A Native stone fishing weight?

 

The striations make me think it's not a simple rock. Plus Florida doesn't have a lot of metamorphic rock, even as riprap (lot cheaper to haul in local coquina/shells/limestone). 

Image result for native american stone fishing weights

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Brachiopods

Thank you for the comments. I had put "nut/fig" in the title, but that was merely a guess. 

The dark brown color is likely due to staining from river water. For example, the source chert for the arrowhead is also not naturally that dark, but it has been "river stained". The stream site where it was found is full of pebbles of that same stain, but none had the striations or pits on the surface. 

As it was found in a creek system that often has fast flowing water, the shine may be due to polishing by water. In person it looks glossy brown but not really metallic. 

A natural concretion or worn tooth stem could certainly be possibilities, I will definitely be looking into both. 

A stone plummet would normally have a more pronounced bulb at the top so that it could function as a net weight. It's possible that a piece has broken off from the top, or river wear had changed the shape somewhat. However, smoothing/working of the rock by Native Americans would show pecking marks but not cause the striations that are seen. 

I've also attached a video of the item to better show it from different angles. Thanks!


 

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HuckMucus

While it moves pretty fast, the video seems to show me a lengthwise line on each side (i.e. opposite each other).  And, while the lines are not perfect, and they curve a little, it does bring to mind a whole nut.  

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Zenmaster6
4 hours ago, HuckMucus said:

My original post said nothing about a nut or a fig.  You confuse me with another.

 

I've never seen a regular rock with those sheens and striations.  That's my point.

 

 

 

Screenshot_20210222-011036_Chrome.jpg

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Zenmaster6
4 hours ago, HuckMucus said:

My original post said nothing about a nut or a fig.  You confuse me with another.

 

I've never seen a regular rock with those sheens and striations.  That's my point.

 

 

I saw you both had no photo and guessed you were OP my bad.

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It also reminds me of some cetacean teeth.

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28 minutes ago, Mahnmut said:

It also reminds me of some cetacean teeth.

Like almost pyritized cementum ?

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10 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Like almost pyritized cementum ?

I did not think much about the mineralization, just the shape  reminded me of some of the more bulbous  teeth (physeterids??)

Cheers,

J

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