Mazon Creek Formation (Fossil Identified) Lepidostrobophyllum

[TheGoblinKing]

My great grandfather majorly shaped who I am today by getting me introduced to biology, paleontology, and earth sciences at a young age.

He left me with many fossils that he had gone out and found himself, picking about in the Mazon Creek Formation of the Carboniferous.

Among the ferns and leaves I had found this one, it looks a lot like a negative impression of an invert to me, although I could also see it being a leaf impression. I'm pretty immature so I'd appreciate any help, thank you

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by TheGoblinKing

[digit]

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a very interesting Mazon Creek concretion that I've not seen before. We have a number of members who are very familiar with the fossils from this location and I'm sure you'll get some good information soon.

 

@RCFossils

@Rob Russell

@Nimravis

@stats

@Mark Kmiecik

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[TheGoblinKing]

12 minutes ago, digit said:

Welcome to the forum!

 

That's a very interesting Mazon Creek concretion that I've not seen before. We have a number of members who are very familiar with the fossils from this location and I'm sure you'll get some good information soon.

 

@RCFossils

@Rob Russell

@Nimravis

@stats

@Mark Kmiecik

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Thank you very much Ken, cheers!

Edited February 20, 2020 by TheGoblinKing

[Tidgy's Dad]

Fascinating.

[Mark Kmiecik]

Beautiful specimen. It is Lepidophyllum, possibly mansfieldi, one of the less common but not extremely rare species of Lepidophyllum. Do you have both halves of the concretion?

 

EDIT: The above should read Lepidostrobophyllum  anywhere it says Lepidophyllum. My bad. Sorry for any confusion. Losing my mind, I guess.

[TheRocksWillShoutHisGlory]

To me it looks like a seed bract with folds or bumps.  I don't have a speculation for what's causing them, but they're very interesting.

[Nimravis]

Though this might not be the correct species, but I would call it Lepidostrobophyllum majus - a bract from a cone.

[caldigger]

Just throwing this into the air...

I have seen leaves do this when there has been insect activity or disease on the plant.

[TheGoblinKing]

29 minutes ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

Beautiful specimen. It is Lepidophyllum, possibly mansfieldi, one of the less common but not extremely rare species of Lepidophyllum. Do you have both halves of the concretion?

Unfortunately I only have the negative impression but im glad to be able to put a name to it!

[TheGoblinKing]

15 minutes ago, Nimravis said:

Though this might not be the correct species, but I would call it Lepidostrobophyllum majus - a bract from a cone.

Thank you! The striations and shape to other examples is nearly identical

[TheGoblinKing]

31 minutes ago, TheRocksWillShoutHisGlory said:

To me it looks like a seed bract with folds or bumps.  I don't have a speculation for what's causing them, but they're very interesting.

 

21 minutes ago, caldigger said:

Just throwing this into the air...

I have seen leaves do this when there has been insect activity or disease on the plant.

I think that caldigger is on the money, ive seen similar "scarring" or ripples on modern leaves and needles after an insect has had its way with them. Thank you 

Edited February 20, 2020 by TheGoblinKing

[Mark Kmiecik]

 

Be aware that these drawings/photos are not to scale. Some are as small as 1/4", others as big as 5", including all sizes in between.

[piranha]

'Lepidophyllum' Brongniart 1828 was preoccupied by a modern genus: Lepidophyllum Cassini 1816.

[Mark Kmiecik]

Oops, I see that I typed "Lepidophyllum". It should be Lepidostrobophyllum. Sorry for the confusion. It stinks to get old.

[Nimravis]

2 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

Oops, I see that I typed "Lepidophyllum". It should be Lepidostrobophyllum. Sorry for the confusion. It stinks to get old.

I think you were on the money with your ID Mark,  L. mansfieldi.

[paleoflor]

11 hours ago, Mark Kmiecik said:

 

Be aware that these drawings/photos are not to scale. Some are as small as 1/4", others as big as 5", including all sizes in between.

Where does this table come from, if I may ask? Looks interesting and I'd like to look up this reference. 

[Ruger9a]

I love the fossil no matter what it is.  It seems your Grandfather had an eye for interesting and detailed specimens.  Thanks for sharing.  Will you be posting more of your collection?

[Mark Kmiecik]

13 hours ago, paleoflor said:

Where does this table come from, if I may ask? Looks interesting and I'd like to look up this reference. 

I Googled "Lepidophyllum mansfieldi" instead of Lepidostrobophylum and it was one that came up when I scrolled down through the available images.

 

You may find this interesting: Lesquereux Coal Flora 4 Vols It's difficult to navigate but worth the effort.

[stats]

On 2/21/2020 at 1:37 AM, paleoflor said:

Where does this table come from, if I may ask? Looks interesting and I'd like to look up this reference. 

I like L. triangulare.  One of our forum friends found a nice one from the river trip.  I don't think he posted it yet.

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

[stats]

On 2/20/2020 at 5:27 PM, Nimravis said:

I think you were on the money with your ID Mark,  L. mansfieldi.

Jack does not list L. mansfieldi in either of his books.  It looks like L. majus with a few wrinkles.

 

Cheers,

Rich

[paleoflor]

On 21/02/2020 at 9:30 PM, Mark Kmiecik said:

I Googled "Lepidophyllum mansfieldi" instead of Lepidostrobophylum and it was one that came up when I scrolled down through the available images.

 

You may find this interesting: Lesquereux Coal Flora 4 Vols It's difficult to navigate but worth the effort.

Thanks for the reply. I have Lesquereux (1879-1880) in hardcopy, and know of its plates, but the image you showed also features photographs, not just drawings. Funnily enough, the image you posted does not show up when I do a Google search here... so this might have been location specific content (because of copyright law)?

 

Did find the Illinois State Museum has a specimen in its collections, though: http://www.museum.state.il.us/databases/geology/mazoncreek/graphical/record_abbr.php?catalog_number=14410

 

[paleoflor]

20 hours ago, stats said:

Jack does not list L. mansfieldi in either of his books.  It looks like L. majus with a few wrinkles.

 

Cheers,

Rich

Maybe. Crookall (1966, Fossil plants of the Carboniferous rocks of Great Britain [Second Edition], Vol. IV, Part 4) comments on this possibility, see attached photo of page 517. It should be noted, however, that neither Crookall (1966) nor Wittry (2006) went as far as to include L. mansfieldi in the synonymy list of L. majus. It may still be an independent species. Curious to hear @fiddlehead's opinion on this.

 

 

 

[piranha]

28 minutes ago, paleoflor said:

..., but the image you showed also features photographs, not just drawings.

Funnily enough, the image you posted does not show up when I do a Google search here... so this might have been location specific content (because of copyright law)?

 

 

Here is the LINK that includes this additional chart with measurements:

 

[Mark Kmiecik]

3 hours ago, paleoflor said:

Thanks for the reply. I have Lesquereux (1879-1880) in hardcopy, and know of its plates, but the image you showed also features photographs, not just drawings. Funnily enough, the image you posted does not show up when I do a Google search here... so this might have been location specific content (because of copyright law)?

 

Did find the Illinois State Museum has a specimen in its collections, though: http://www.museum.state.il.us/databases/geology/mazoncreek/graphical/record_abbr.php?catalog_number=14410

 

I went to look for it again and couldn't find it, but I found this and sourced it to https://forums-naturalistes.forums-actifs.com/t5713p15-sigillariostrobus-ou-lepidostrobus

It is very similar in style, and appears to be drawings from Lesquereaux plus added photos. Maybe the work of a club member. The dimensions are at least helpful. The photos appear to be from various sources. And I just noticed that piranha beat me to it.

 

 

[fiddlehead]

In my opinion Lepidophyllum mansfieldi is a junior synonym of Lepidophyllum majus. Every feature is the same except for presents of undulations. This opinion is also shared with Álvarez-Vázquez* & Wagner, 2014. I have never seen L. mansfieldi at Mazon Creek and apparently neither did Lesquereaux since he did not mention it found in the Mazon Creek flora. So this is a very rare find. I think L. mansfieldi is an artifact of taphonomy and not a separate species. It makes no sense to have undulations so sharp that it pinches off? the (3) center veins in a living plant.  Lastly L. majus is the only known and widely excepted sporophyll taxa with 3 center veins. 

 

Hope this is of some use.

Jack