CDiggs Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Hi All, Here's something I've never seen before. Found in Burleson county TX last Tuesday eroding from Pleistocene fluviatile terrace deposits. My initial thoughts were that this was some kind of tooth but after looking closer at the presumptive base of the specimen I think that's not likely. The other other thing I was considering was some kind of spine from a fish but I'm definitely out of my depth on this one. here are some detailed microscope photos of the ends, the matrix adhering, and some of the wear near the presumed tip. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Wow, this one is fascinating. It sure does look like enamel in the side views, but I see what you're saying about that base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 For my part, I still think it looks toothy. But I'm really curious to see what others will say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Any chance it could be an antler tine? The base looks like it. Plus the way it becomes more uniform at the tip. The shininess is throwing me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 47 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said: Any chance it could be an antler tine? The base looks like it. Plus the way it becomes more uniform at the tip. The shininess is throwing me though. That's something I hadn't considered. The very regular triangular cross section doesn't remind me of any deer, moose or elk antler I've seen before and the longitudinal grooves while similar to antler seem a little too regular as well. The very hard almost vitreous texture are what initially had me thinking of enamel and teeth, but for capybara, beaver or any mammals I can think of that have those longitudinal grooves in their incisors, the root of the tooth looks nothing like this to my knowledge. The very dense minuscule pores that make up the cancelous/trabecular bone texture at the widest end is more consistent with antler though. The regular shape of that wide end also had me thinking that it was a natural termination rather than a break surface, which doesn't really bear a resemblance to the shed antlers I'm familiar with. That's why I was considering fish spine as a possible alternative, but lacking in any barbs/denticles and being this large with obvious signs of wear near the tapering point rules catfish (I think) or any other fish spines that I'm aware of. But I know next to nothing about fish in general, let alone those specific to the Pleistocene. obviously I've been going in circles for a couple days on this but I appreciate the third option to consider! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 I need that microscope to take photos like that. Wow... Those are great photos. What did you use? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) What about a peccary tusk/canine? Edited August 10 by johnnyvaldez7.jv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 @Shellseeker Jack, what did the internal structure of your peccary tusk look like? https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/122427-a-canine-or-tusk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) Really doesn’t look like anything I’ve found out there…. But snakewood comes to mind as a vague possibility. It is known to that area Edited August 10 by garyc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 2 hours ago, Brandy Cole said: @Shellseeker Jack, what did the internal structure of your peccary tusk look like? https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/122427-a-canine-or-tusk/ Not sure that I can help very much, In the post , the 1st Peccary tusk was a text of a photo from a friend who subsequently sold the Tusk without taking any additional photos. The other was a very interesting tusk sold by prehistoricFlorida that showed up on Worthpoint. I have no access. For what it's worth on OPs find, I believe that 80+% this is a Peccary Tusk...I wish that I had a comparison. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 (edited) When I first glanced at the photos (even before reading your post) my gut screamed 'Peccary tusk'! But then you have that cross section with all the pores... Like Shellseeker, my guess is peccary tusk... but again, that end of it looks strange. Edit: Highly, highly unlikely, but what if some sort of stomach acid had eaten away at the end? But then again; the other end doesn't have that texture. Sorry for the disorganized post. I'm sort of 'thinking out loud'. Edited August 10 by Jaybot -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 Wait; here's another theory. The base could have been growing/developing, which would explain the unusual texture. I have found developing teeth (still in mandible) that had unusual texture in the past. In male peccaries, their tusks never stop growing. Maybe another possibility: could this have been where it fused to bone? Not sure how peccary tusks are held in. -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted August 10 Author Share Posted August 10 15 hours ago, johnnyvaldez7.jv said: I need that microscope to take photos like that. Wow... Those are great photos. What did you use? Its a Wild M8 stereo microscope with a photo-port attachment and a Sony Nex5 digital camera 12 hours ago, Jaybot said: Wait; here's another theory. The base could have been growing/developing, which would explain the unusual texture. I have found developing teeth (still in mandible) that had unusual texture in the past. In male peccaries, their tusks never stop growing. Maybe another possibility: could this have been where it fused to bone? Not sure how peccary tusks are held in. I definitely considered this possibility but my understanding is that with constantly growing teeth like the incisors in rodents, sloth teeth and in the canines of peccaries the root is hollow at the base. Here are a couple photos from @PrehistoricFlorida's website that more or less show the hollow base of peccary canines; Platygonus compressus Mylohyus fossilis Maybe he would be willing weigh in considering he's certainly seen more of these peccary canines than I have? I really don't know what the base would look like if the hollow root were broken. I certainly haven't ruled out peccary yet, not that I've really ruled out anything yet... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybot Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 11 hours ago, CDiggs said: with constantly growing teeth like the incisors in rodents, sloth teeth and in the canines of peccaries the root is hollow at the base. Good point, I forgot about that. Looking forward to hear what PrehistoricFlorida has to say about this interesting find. -Jay “The earth doesn't need new continents, but new men.” ― Jules Verne, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyc Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 I keep coming back to this post and sadly leave not seeing a definitive ID yet. In the mean time here’s a peccary tusk I found from the Brazos for you to compare with 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 @Harry Pristis Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivaldir Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 (edited) Do we need to add stingray barb to the possibilities? Just going to add this image from the net as a reference. The inside of your specimen reminds me of the build-up of fish tilly bone as well. The longitudinal striations and enamel-looking appearance can also fit. Edited August 14 by Ivaldir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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