Jurassic Vertebrate Fossil ID HELP!!!

[Howon]

Hi

I really want to know what this fossil is

It is from Middle Germany

Hope you all doing good!

[C2fossils]

There appears to be some bird bone fragments/complete bones. @Brevicollis @Shellseeker @jpc?

[Howon]

Yes the bones are empty so I thought the same!

[Brevicollis]

Sorry, but I think I cant really help here.

It is helpful to know, where in middle Germany this was found.

 

Maybe @rocket, @Ludwigia and @oilshale can help, with the neccecary informations of course, here further ?

[Howon]

Thank you for asking

It's from the Jura Kalk in middle Germany

[Fossildude19]

@rocket  @oilshale

[rocket]

@Howon

interesting find. I would assume it is pleistocene or upper neogene comparing the bone preservation.

where does it exactly come from? 

might be from a sink hole or it is cave matrix.

thanks

Edited November 1 by rocket

[jpc]

I am hesitant to jump on the birdwagon; these are hollow indeed, but the bones are not terribly thin like bird bones.  Other bones can often be hollow.  Many mammal fossil bones I find around here have calcite-y infills like this.   

 

Having said that, the bone with the caliper looks like a femur.  What a great pile of bones.  

[Howon]

It's from around Altmühltal and I'm afraid I have no other informations as I purchased this from an old collection

 

Beautiful color and preservation indeed!

 

This was the most similar looking fossil I could find so mammal can surely be the one!

[doushantuo]

Howon, welcome

Can you cite the source of that image?

E,G: " the Guardian " , " Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society" ?

 

Edited November 2 by doushantuo

[Howon]

References
Bi S, Wang Y-Q, Guan J, Sheng X and Meng J 2014. Three new Jurassic euharamiidan species reinforce early divergence of mammals. Nature 514:579-584.

https://pterosaurheresies.wordpress.com/2016/08/08/a-jurassic-ancestor-to-both-rodents-and-multituberculates/

[doushantuo]

ah, much obliged

[Mahnmut]

Well, the Altmühltal is a good place for fossils.

Getting one like yours from an old collection is luck.

For the ID I would try to take a close look at every piece of bone there is in the block, there seem to be crosscut vertebrae visible in addition to the long bones...

Comparing with known jurassic Altmühltal vertebrates and younger infills from the region would also help to narrow it down.

https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/142486-dinosaurier-museum-altmühltal-duitsland/#comment-1497976

https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/93402-dinopark-altmühltal/#comment-1029143

 

To my amateur eye it looks as if the preservation was similar to the jurassic fossils, just maybe weathered out instead of prepped?

@rocket, may I ask what makes you think its neogene?

Best regards,

J

[Howon]

Yes vertebrae is lying and there is a small one which you can see a hole through the middle

Thank you for looking it out:)

 

Oh, and when I touch the fossil small particles of the matrix fall out like sand a little

Edited November 2 by Howon

[rocket]

27 minutes ago, Mahnmut said:

Well, the Altmühltal is a good place for fossils.

Getting one like yours from an old collection is luck.

For the ID I would try to take a close look at every piece of bone there is in the block, there seem to be crosscut vertebrae visible in addition to the long bones...

Comparing with known jurassic Altmühltal vertebrates and younger infills from the region would also help to narrow it down.

https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/142486-dinosaurier-museum-altmühltal-duitsland/#comment-1497976

https://www.thefossilforum.com/topic/93402-dinopark-altmühltal/#comment-1029143

 

To my amateur eye it looks as if the preservation was similar to the jurassic fossils, just maybe weathered out instead of prepped?

@rocket, may I ask what makes you think its neogene?

Best regards,

J

Its the color and the preservation of the bones, too light for jurassic ones and the break "fresh". I know a lot of similar fossils from southern germany from middle to upper pleistocene, cave and karst-findings. Nice find, @Howon, you found them yourself?

[Howon]

It's a nice specimen and it's from an old collection I bought

[doushantuo]

stab in the dark: Panthera limb bone, decalcified ?

The piece does remind me of karst infill,as others have said

[Mahnmut]

10 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

stab in the dark: Panthera limb bone, decalcified ?

The piece does remind me of karst infill,as others have said

What makes you stab that way?

[rocket]

33 minutes ago, doushantuo said:

stab in the dark: Panthera limb bone, decalcified ?

necessary to see more bones or teeth, hard to say

[doushantuo]

Mahnmut :dunno ,really

Maybe because i don't know the exact (stratigraphic/lithologic) meaning of "Jurakalk "?

If the whole piece is Jurassic,Panthera can certainly be excluded

Edited November 2 by doushantuo

[Howon]

I heard that Jura Kalk is just a formation

This fossil is found around Altmühltal

I don't know what "the name giver formation" is but this is exactly what I heard from the seller

Maybe he meant the Jura Kalk is named after Jurassic as I heard Jura means Jurassic from him

Edited November 2 by Howon

[doushantuo]

Ok: Altmuhthal  ( or a location in the vicinity of it) has some nice Jurassic fossils, a turtle,thylacocephalans 

There may be ""Plattenkalk  " around there

[calcaires lithographiques/lithographic limestones/ fine-grained micritic carbonates)

Edited November 2 by doushantuo

[Mahnmut]

Actually the jurassic is named after the Jurakalk, Jura being a location name.

Which does not mean that there are not a lot of younger fossils in cave infills to be found there.

[doushantuo]

As a student of all great european orogenies i'm well aware of the aetiology and full nomenclature of JURASSIC

I know von Humboldt coined the term

[doushantuo]

It might be advisable to contact Frederik Spindler, who recently published on a late Jurassic pterosaurid.

In an open access publication, Paleontologia electronica

 

Edited November 2 by doushantuo