Kohler Palaeontology Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 Hello forum, I am currently doing a troodontid paleoart. I would like some help with the colour. I've decided to make it have black feathers as I believe every dromaeosaurid we know for 100% certainty the colour of, have been black. I know troodontids aren't dromaeosaurids, but their quite closely related. Also, I think black makes sence for a camouflage in a forested environment. And the fact that troodontids may have hunted at night due to their huge, binocular eyes and huge brains. I would like to know everyone Elses opinions before I continue with the piece. I always like to get some second opinions. "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
TriVeratops Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 Your logic makes perfect sense. And given that many modern animals have predominately black coloration whether they’re nocturnal or not, I struggle to imagine a good reason why a troodontid couldn’t be black. (also, black dinosaurs look cool) 1
North Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 8 hours ago, Kohler Palaeontology said: as I believe every dromaeosaurid we know for 100% certainty the colour of, have been black. Which species are included? I might have missed this. There's no such thing as too many teeth.
Kohler Palaeontology Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) 5 minutes ago, North said: Which species are included? I might have missed this. All I know of is Microraptor and I believe there have been theropod (Many have called Dromaeosaur) feathers preserved in amber from Victoria, Australia. All I have mentioned have been identified to have black feathers. Edited December 13, 2024 by Kohler Palaeontology "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
North Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 1 hour ago, Kohler Palaeontology said: All I know of is Microraptor and I believe there have been theropod (Many have called Dromaeosaur) feathers preserved in amber from Victoria, Australia. All I have mentioned have been identified to have black feathers. I think I have not heard about the Australian specimen. But what comes to your project. I think you can't go wrong whatever you choose, since you can go speculative. But I do like when there is thoughts behind, like being nocturnal like you mentioned. 1 There's no such thing as too many teeth.
BirdsAreDinosaurs Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) I think you cannot really go wrong, everything is possible. But I would like to point out that extant nocturnal theropods (owls) are usually not black. I guess being black also makes it pretty hard to hide during the day. Edited December 13, 2024 by BirdsAreDinosaurs 1 1
Kohler Palaeontology Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 12 hours ago, BirdsAreDinosaurs said: I guess being black also makes it pretty hard to hide during the day. I thought that it would've helped them hide during the day as well, since (at least most north American troodontids) live in lush floodplain forested environments. "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
Kohler Palaeontology Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 13 hours ago, North said: I think I have not heard about the Australian specimen. But what comes to your project. I think you can't go wrong whatever you choose, since you can go speculative. But I do like when there is thoughts behind, like being nocturnal like you mentioned. I found articles about theropod feathers being found in Aus, but for some reason I can't find the amber one. I swear I heard about that somewhere. I'll keep looking and hopefully I'll find it. "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
BirdsAreDinosaurs Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 On 12/13/2024 at 11:49 PM, Kohler Palaeontology said: I thought that it would've helped them hide during the day as well, since (at least most north American troodontids) live in lush floodplain forested environments. I guess that could work, given specific circumstances (environmental, behavioural, size, how prey and predators see the world). But I still think being completely black in many cases is not the best camouflage, even in dense forests. Patterns that breaks silhouettes would work better. Think tiger stripes and jaguar spots. This might be an interesting read, even though it is about cats (but evolutionary patterns might be somewhat similar): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3061134/ 1 1
North Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 28 minutes ago, BirdsAreDinosaurs said: I guess that could work, given specific circumstances (environmental, behavioural, size, how prey and predators see the world). But I still think being completely black in many cases is not the best camouflage, even in dense forests. Patterns that breaks silhouettes would work better. Think tiger stripes and jaguar spots. This might be an interesting read, even though it is about cats (but evolutionary patterns might be somewhat similar): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3061134/ There was study about melanistic African animals. Prey animals were often left alone at night time by predators, but in much greater risk during day time. From modern animals lighter colors like grey and brown are more common on nocturnal animals. I guess its less of an tradeoff. 1 There's no such thing as too many teeth.
Kohler Palaeontology Posted December 15, 2024 Author Posted December 15, 2024 (edited) Maybe I could do a Dark brownish colour with a lighter grey, white or sandy tan colour on the bottom, kind of like counter shading. And who knows, maybe even some fancier colours on the face to signal that it's a male individual. Edited December 15, 2024 by Kohler Palaeontology "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
BirdsAreDinosaurs Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 21 hours ago, Kohler Palaeontology said: Maybe I could do a Dark brownish colour with a lighter grey, white or sandy tan colour on the bottom, kind of like counter shading. And who knows, maybe even some fancier colours on the face to signal that it's a male individual. Sounds like a nice plan. But I definitely did not want to change your mind about making it black. There are black animals living in dense forest right now, so why not then? Being black might have other advantages besides being hard to see at night. It influences thermoregulation and might be beneficial under moist conditions. If I remember correctly, city pigeons might have darker feathers because it helps them store and get rid of heavy metals. So anything is possible 1
Kohler Palaeontology Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 (edited) On 12/17/2024 at 7:03 AM, BirdsAreDinosaurs said: Sounds like a nice plan. But I definitely did not want to change your mind about making it black. There are black animals living in dense forest right now, so why not then? Being black might have other advantages besides being hard to see at night. It influences thermoregulation and might be beneficial under moist conditions. If I remember correctly, city pigeons might have darker feathers because it helps them store and get rid of heavy metals. So anything is possible (This is not the final painting) Here's a colour test I did a while back; I'm finally getting around to painting the Troodon. I have the test with a black colour with the actual drawing atop. Would you still agree to a black coloration before I continue with the actual paleoart? I know there are a couple of in-accuracies in the drawing, but I'll fix them in post. Though the teeth may look crooked, this is actually based directly off of actual Troodon jaws, and the amount and size of teeth compared to the rest of the head. And I will add those large serrations. And there will be feathers atop of its head, I couldn't fit them in the drawing so I'll have to do them once I scan it on the computer. Edited January 4 by Kohler Palaeontology "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
Kohler Palaeontology Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 I shall take this time to also ask, should it have clumpy feathers or smooth feathers? I know I'm asking lots of questions but when it comes to sculpting, painting or any kind of art, I am a perfectionist and spend months trying to get it as accurate as possible. "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
TriVeratops Posted January 4 Posted January 4 I think it looks beautiful and completely plausible in black. I’d go with smooth feathers. I struggle to imagine these animals didn’t preen/groom their plumage. Prehistoric Planet has some very nice visual reference of realistic-looking feathered theropods. 1
Kohler Palaeontology Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 Ok, so I think I've made up my mind on what I'm going to do, it'll be black with white specks (like the image below) on its underside with red (and maybe blue) accents to the large feathers atop of its head to signal it's a male. 1 "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
Kohler Palaeontology Posted January 4 Author Posted January 4 I am just now discovering that some troodontids we actually know the colour of have a similar pattern, and use the same colours to what I've just said, coincidence. 1 "The past always seems better when you look back on it than it did at the time." - Peter Benchley (author of the novel "Jaws" that inspired the 1975 hit film)
BirdsAreDinosaurs Posted January 4 Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Kohler Palaeontology said: Ok, so I think I've made up my mind on what I'm going to do, it'll be black with white specks (like the image below) on its underside with red (and maybe blue) accents to the large feathers atop of its head to signal it's a male. Sounds great, looking forward to the final painting. The test version looks very promising! 1
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