Turtle Nuchal Scute

[bolterbeist]

I found this turtle nuchal scute (I believe Emydidae) in Sarpy county, NE, and was wondering if anyone knows a way to get to a more specific ID. Thanks!

[Fossildude19]

Welcome to the Forum. 

 

 

The answer is, ... Probably not easily. 

 

As far as I know, (granted, ... not much) those bones are NOT specific to genus or species. (However, I could be wrong about that. Wait for some other opinions, however. )

 

The best way to narrow it down would be to research the area's geologic Formations, and see if you can find a published faunal list for the specific Formation where this was found.

Start googling the Formation names +PDF, and start reading.

 

Or take it to a nearby Natural History Museum, or University, and see if someone there can identify it further.

 

Good luck!

[Notidanodon]

I’ve seen others like this labelled as emys but that could be wrong

[bolterbeist]

3 hours ago, Fossildude19 said:

Welcome to the Forum. 

 

 

The answer is, ... Probably not easily. 

 

As far as I know, (granted, ... not much) those bones are NOT specific to genus or species. (However, I could be wrong about that. Wait for some other opinions, however. )

 

The best way to narrow it down would be to research the area's geologic Formations, and see if you can find a published faunal list for the specific Formation where this was found.

Start googling the Formation names +PDF, and start reading.

 

Or take it to a nearby Natural History Museum, or University, and see if someone there can identify it further.

 

Good luck!

Thanks for your help! I’ll look into it

[Shellseeker]

25 minutes ago, bolterbeist said:

Thanks for your help! I’ll look into it

It is a Turtle Nuchal Scute;  @digitor @Plantguywill know how to get an answer on species

[digit]

4 hours ago, bolterbeist said:

I found this turtle nuchal scute (I believe Emydidae) in Sarpy county, NE, and was wondering if anyone knows a way to get to a more specific ID. Thanks!

That would be my guess as well but that's just from being around someone at UF who is a turtle expert. If you have an idea of the formation this might have come from that would be helpful. Also, some slightly better photos on a plain background with a ruler for scale would be helpful. I might be able to get you an answer on this (at least to family or maybe even genus).

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[bolterbeist]

3 hours ago, digit said:

That would be my guess as well but that's just from being around someone at UF who is a turtle expert. If you have an idea of the formation this might have come from that would be helpful. Also, some slightly better photos on a plain background with a ruler for scale would be helpful. I might be able to get you an answer on this (at least to family or maybe even genus).

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

The creeks in my area are mainly made up of alluvium that is Wisconsinian in age, I believe. Here’s a couple better photos. Thanks for the help!

[Plantguy]

Cool find!...

I agree that it appears to be from the family Emydidae and has alot of similarity to Jack's specimen/photo, maybe a more smooth shelled version-- a Pseudemys sp pond turtle.

I'm not familiar with turtles from Nebraska/mid west--Jason is an expert on turtles---I look forward to hearing what he has to say. 

Seeing the ventral side(opposite side)  as well will be helpful. These nuchal bones are diagnostic.

Regards, Chris 

[bolterbeist]

11 hours ago, Plantguy said:

Cool find!...

I agree that it appears to be from the family Emydidae and has alot of similarity to Jack's specimen/photo, maybe a more smooth shelled version-- a Pseudemys sp pond turtle.

I'm not familiar with turtles from Nebraska/mid west--Jason is an expert on turtles---I look forward to hearing what he has to say. 

Seeing the ventral side(opposite side)  as well will be helpful. These nuchal bones are diagnostic.

Regards, Chris 

Thanks for the info! Here is a couple photos of the other side. 

[digit]

Indeed, Jason has confirmed that this nuchal is from an emydid and I've just sent him the photos of the flip-side. He suspects it might be from a Chrysemys but I won't know more till I hear back from him.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Plantguy]

5 minutes ago, digit said:

Indeed, Jason has confirmed that this nuchal is from an emydid and I've just sent him the photos of the flip-side. He suspects it might be from a Chrysemys but I won't know more till I hear back from him.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Awesome!!...ask him if you get the chance how to explain the difference between Chrysemys and Pseudemys....if there is an easy answer..thanks

 

Regards, Chris 

[digit]

Always helpful to know what the experts are looking for when they ID a fossil as it fits into the give a man a fish/teach a man to fish model.

 

Apparently, the determination seems to have to do with the sutures at the edges of the bone (which get worn down and make things difficult) as well as the size/thickness. Here is Jason's latest reply:

 

It's tricky to say for sure from the pictures and the erosion around all edges. It looks most like the genera Chrysemys and Pseudemys? If Chrysemys, it'd be a really big one. If Pseudemys, then super rare or unknown in that region? A side view might help but can't say for sure...

 

I think we can safely say it is in the family Emydidae but a generic-level ID may be tricky.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

[bolterbeist]

On 1/13/2025 at 11:42 AM, digit said:

Always helpful to know what the experts are looking for when they ID a fossil as it fits into the give a man a fish/teach a man to fish model.

 

Apparently, the determination seems to have to do with the sutures at the edges of the bone (which get worn down and make things difficult) as well as the size/thickness. Here is Jason's latest reply:

 

It's tricky to say for sure from the pictures and the erosion around all edges. It looks most like the genera Chrysemys and Pseudemys? If Chrysemys, it'd be a really big one. If Pseudemys, then super rare or unknown in that region? A side view might help but can't say for sure...

 

I think we can safely say it is in the family Emydidae but a generic-level ID may be tricky.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

Great! Thanks for all the help!