Jump to content

Crinoids In Matrix Specimen Group? Might This Be Genuine?


Scuba Diver

Recommended Posts

A while back I inherited a rather attractive group of fossils and while most are genuine I had my doubts about a couple from Morocco in a sandstone matrix, especially when considering that rubber cement held the jaw section together. Unless of course rubber cement was utilized by old age critters back them to preserve themselves for future collectors.

This particular crinoids (assuming a correct attribution) fossil pictured is so attractive that my suspicions have been raised and while no evidence of rubber cement is evident I cannot rule out super glue.

The matrix measures about 7" long, unknown age or location found or manufactured. Any thoughts or suggestions?

post-7178-0-33430000-1345582299_thumb.jpg

post-7178-0-40599500-1345582336_thumb.jpg

post-7178-0-54791400-1345582433_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are not crinoids, but blastoids (and a horn coral).

They seem real enough to me (in and of themselves), but as for whether or not they were actually found in that assemblage, I'd have no idea, being unfamiliar with the formation, etc.

Nice display piece, either way.

Edited by Mr. Edonihce

.

____________________

scale in avatar is millimeters

____________________

Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser'

____________________

WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org)

____________________

"Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly."

-- Mr. Edonihce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I'm totally embarrassed I missed the proper identification for the fossil group, nevertheless the information is truly appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The blastoids look like Pentremites from the lower carboniferous (mississippian). And I don't think that this specimen is from Morocco. Such fossils can be found (and are often traded) in the US (e.g., Illinois).

There is not the smallest hint that the blastoids are faked. There is also no need to fake them, since isolated individual specimens are available for a few dollars. However, it may well be that they were glued on the matrix. Otherwise they would have fallen off. This makes it possible that the stone is not the original matrix and, as already mentioned, this is not the original assemblage. In fact, the "aequi-distant" arrangement of the fossils looks statistically improbable. Nevertheless, a nice specimen with real fossils and better than having all the Pentremites specimens crowded in a small box (as I have). Beautiful!

araucaria1959

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fossils are likely real. The presentation though might not be.

Everything just looks so well laid out.

Still really cool none the less.

Robert
Southeast, MO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say the Pentremites are real but the placement looks artificial. In all the plates I've found there is usually a lot of other stuff (bryozoans,stems etc) mixed in.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen

No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go.

" I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes

"can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I'm totally embarrassed I missed the proper identification for the fossil group...

It's OK to be embarrassed once in a while (we all step out and take a shot at things, and sometimes we're much further off than this simple difference you've discovered), but certainly don't think any of us looks down on you for it.

As recently as within the past year or two, I finally learned that brachiopods were NOT molluscs LOL

For some reason, even though the information was all around me, and I already considered myself somewhat of an expert in other fauna, I had just never really paid attention (not very interested in things outside of echinodermata), and simply lumped them together based on a superficial, visual observation ("ah, they all have 'shells'. So, they must be molluscs").

When that came about for me, I was happy to be among compassionate folks (much like most everyone here on this forum), and no one even cracked a grin (whereas they clearly could have skewered me).

At least the two things here (crinoids and blastoids) are members of the same phylum.

So, clearly, no embarrassment, diver.

None at all in this group.

.

____________________

scale in avatar is millimeters

____________________

Come visit Sandi, the 'Fossil Journey Cruiser'

____________________

WIPS (the Western Interior Paleontological Society - http://www.westernpaleo.org)

____________________

"Being genetically cursed with an almost inhuman sense of curiosity and wonder, I'm hard-wired to investigate even the most unlikely, uninteresting (to others anyway) and irrelevant details; often asking hypothetical questions from many angles in an attempt to understand something more thoroughly."

-- Mr. Edonihce

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are from Milstadt Bluff near Floraville, IL Definitely real blastoids remounted on a piece of matrix from location. I see that done alot from the location, blastoids are that abundant in spots there but those are remounted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those are from Milstadt Bluff near Floraville, IL Definitely real blastoids remounted on a piece of matrix from location. I see that done alot from the location, blastoids are that abundant in spots there but those are remounted.

Beat me to it! Agree 100%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks people, I really appreciate the information. I have used the forum on a couple of occasions to help me identify a few fossils but I most often enjoy the subtle art of "lurking" here. The collection I have was given to me and sadly it arrived without documentation and while the original collector knew the collection by heart that information wasn't passed on.

I did discover a few assembled sandstone matrix fossils and I have read here a fair amount of information on outright forgery's so the insights of more knowledgeable collectors is invaluable.

At this point I am less then impressed with the idea of assembled specimens when so many of the more interesting examples are as found. The less outstanding examples I will simply move on to new homes and display my more cherished ones in a cabinet.

Again, thanks,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the display aspect of your blastoid plate; it is attractive, and non-fossil-heads would simply admire it with wonder. I also get that there is a twinge suffered by knowledgeable purists, akin to what a baseball fan feels about a record with an asterisk...

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...