Advice Requested: Heat Source For Drying Shale

[Mediospirifer]

Yesterday, I visited my local thrift store looking for something to warm and dessicate my shale chips before doing a hydrogen peroxide bath. I was looking for a hot plate or other device with some temperature control that I could set to 200^o F or so, as I've seen recommended here at TFF.

The only things available were a selection of electric grills. None of them had any heat control, just the built-in cooking temperature. I don't know what that temperature is, but it's probably closer to 400^o F than the 200^o I was hoping for.

I bought a small one thinking it might be useful, but I'd like to double-check with TFF members who are more experienced with breaking down shale. Will this gadget work for my purposes, or is it too hot? Am I running a risk of steam explosions with this? Is it likely to harden my shale rather than break it down?

Any help with this will be appreciated!

[fossilcrazy]

My wife has a food dehydrator that gets between 150^o F and 200^o F and keeps a supply of fresh drying air circulating over the trays. There are a lot of sizes, styles and prices out there.

[MarcoSr]

I normally just let the sun dry out my shale if I'm using H2O2. Sometimes I use freeze thaw instead where I soak the shale in water, freeze it solid, then thaw it in boiling water on a hot plate. Neither of these methods works for hard shale. You get some results with soft shale. With the fact that shale can contain trapped water, oil, gas etc, I'm not very comfortable artificially heating it but I'm not really sure what would be safe heating temperatures I definitely wouldn't use a microwave which you really can't control temperature at all and can cause serious injuries. I also wouldn't use your oven, again because of what shale can contain, for safety reasons. I have used my oven up to 150F to dry clays. Since you work in a lab you might try using 30% H2O2 instead of the 3% Walmart H2O2 in your lab. You will need to use all the recommended safety equipment and follow all the recommended safety procedures. 30% H2O2 should break your shale down. If you haven't used 30% before ask for help from someone in your lab who has. Do not try this at home. Legally companies can't ship 30% H202 to residential addresses only labs and schools. I'm still waiting for you to give liquid nitrogen a try in your lab on shale.

Marco Sr.

[Mediospirifer]

It sounds like I shouldn't try using the grill to dry out my rocks. OK, I'll look for something else.

I normally just let the sun dry out my shale if I'm using H2O2. Sometimes I use freeze thaw instead where I soak the shale in water, freeze it solid, then thaw it in boiling water on a hot plate. Neither of these methods works for hard shale. You get some results with soft shale. With the fact that shale can contain trapped water, oil, gas etc, I'm not very comfortable artificially heating it but I'm not really sure what would be safe heating temperatures I definitely wouldn't use a microwave which you really can't control temperature at all and can cause serious injuries. I also wouldn't use your oven, again because of what shale can contain, for safety reasons. I have used my oven up to 150F to dry clays. Since you work in a lab you might try using 30% H2O2 instead of the 3% Walmart H2O2 in your lab. You will need to use all the recommended safety equipment and follow all the recommended safety procedures. 30% H2O2 should break your shale down. If you haven't used 30% before ask for help from someone in your lab who has. Do not try this at home. Legally companies can't ship 30% H202 to residential addresses only labs and schools. I'm still waiting for you to give liquid nitrogen a try in your lab on shale.

Marco Sr.

It'll be a while before I try the liquid nitrogen treatment in the lab. I do have a matrix in mind for that treatment, I just don't have any on hand that doesn't contain macrofossils that I want to keep intact. To reach it, I need to either cross a sizable creek or climb down a slope and cross a swampy area. That won't happen until the ice melts!

Using a microwave hadn't even occurred to me, and I would have rejected the idea immediately if anyone had suggested it. My shale contains a lot of microscopic pyrite bits. I have seen things get sparkly when I use a ceramic dish that has a little bit of gilt on it. I can just imagine the fireworks display that could make if I tried to cook my shale!

I'm also not going to put rocks into any of my cooking equipment. My beloved husband has made it very clear that he doesn't want me to mix Science with food!

[Al Dente]

I've used my oven for drying sediment for over 20 years. It works great.

[mikecable]

I've used my oven for drying sediment for over 20 years. It works great.

I second the oven. Buy a cookie sheet at Goodwill and dedicate to fossils to appease your husband.

[MarcoSr]

I second the oven. Buy a cookie sheet at Goodwill and dedicate to fossils to appease your husband.

I've used my oven for drying sediment for over 20 years. It works great.

I have also used my oven for a lot of years but not for shale. Just too many things in shale that I worry about putting in the oven. I also use cookie sheets. I have my own set of them.

Marco Sr.

[Mediospirifer]

I've used my oven for drying sediment for over 20 years. It works great.

I second the oven. Buy a cookie sheet at Goodwill and dedicate to fossils to appease your husband.

How much smell does heating shale produce for you guys? That's what my husband's objection is. He doesn't want the taste of hot rock in his dinner!

Keep in mind that it's around 10^o F around here right now. If my kitchen smells, I can't just open a window to air it out. I'd prefer to heat my rocks elsewhere, with dedicated equipment.

I suppose if I can't find a cheap appliance, I can always put a plate of rocks under the radiator...

[Al Dente]

Some of the sediment will smell. The last batch I heated had quite a bit of algae that smelled up the kitchen.

[MarcoSr]

It sounds like I shouldn't try using the grill to dry out my rocks. OK, I'll look for something else.

It'll be a while before I try the liquid nitrogen treatment in the lab. I do have a matrix in mind for that treatment, I just don't have any on hand that doesn't contain macrofossils that I want to keep intact. To reach it, I need to either cross a sizable creek or climb down a slope and cross a swampy area. That won't happen until the ice melts!

Using a microwave hadn't even occurred to me, and I would have rejected the idea immediately if anyone had suggested it. My shale contains a lot of microscopic pyrite bits. I have seen things get sparkly when I use a ceramic dish that has a little bit of gilt on it. I can just imagine the fireworks display that could make if I tried to cook my shale!

I'm also not going to put rocks into any of my cooking equipment. My beloved husband has made it very clear that he doesn't want me to mix Science with food!

If the regular 3% H202 doesn't work well you can still try the 30% in your lab. I have a friend who actually set his kitchen on fire using his microwave to dry matrix. His wife was more than unhappy. Luckily no one was injured and he was able to put out the fire pretty quickly. He had actually used his microwave for a while. There was definitely something in that batch of matrix that the microwave didn't like.

Marco Sr.

[mikecable]

A roaster oven would work well. I don't see the need to dedicate it to fossils. The roaster itself is not going to take on a smell. You could set it in the garage or the mud room, and still use it to roast the turkey during the holidays.

[squali]

Walmart has hot plates for sale from under $40.00. $18.00 was the cheapest.

Amazon has them as well.

I found one at a yard sale for $10.00 it was from a little chief smoker and

only gets about 200^F

[Mediospirifer]

A roaster oven would work well. I don't see the need to dedicate it to fossils. The roaster itself is not going to take on a smell. You could set it in the garage or the mud room, and still use it to roast the turkey during the holidays.

If I'm roasting a turkey (or anything else) I use a roasting pan in my oven. I don't have any use for an extra unit, except for a dedicated fossil warmer. Your point about the roaster not taking on any smell is a good one.

If the regular 3% H202 doesn't work well you can still try the 30% in your lab. I have a friend who actually set his kitchen on fire using his microwave to dry matrix. His wife was more than unhappy. Luckily no one was injured and he was able to put out the fire pretty quickly. He had actually used his microwave for a while. There was definitely something in that batch of matrix that the microwave didn't like.

Marco Sr.

Yikes!

I don't think I need the lab-grade materials for the pieces of Windom I'm currently breaking down, just a better heat source than a hot (and cooling) ceramic plate. If a better heat source doesn't make a difference, though, I'll be looking at other possibilities. A hammer will probably be next!

[mikecable]

Also consider a weathering bench. Place your matrix in plastic tubs or buckets and submerge in water. Leave outside where the sun will hit the container. Where you are located you will get frequent freeze/thaw cycles. Where I am I get lots of solar heating. I've had good luck with patience on several different matrices. It's free, but time consuming, and somewhat unsightly if you like a manicured landscape.

[Raistlin]

All this talk of using food cooking items had made me realize I have an old food dehydrator and toaster oven that I could possibly put to use at some point.

Out of curiosity though, what is the need for cooking/drying shale? Also what is the need to freeze/thaw shale?

Edited January 29, 2014 by Raistlin

[mikecable]

I've had the opportunity to tour a number of University of Texas labs. I was amazed when I saw orange extension cords hung from the ceiling tiles on coat hangers. Duct tape and electrical tape patching things together. Homemade contraptions from card stock and masking tape. Dirty sinks. CRT monitors hooked up to old DOS boxes on desks from the fifties. Electrical fans from the fifties. All next to equipment worth tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. Scientists at work make it work with what is at hand. And if it works they move on. Real science is steam punk.

You don't need an ICBM when a shotgun will do.

A hand lens and a hammer can accomplish a lot.

[Mediospirifer]

Also consider a weathering bench. Place your matrix in plastic tubs or buckets and submerge in water. Leave outside where the sun will hit the container. Where you are located you will get frequent freeze/thaw cycles. Where I am I get lots of solar heating. I've had good luck with patience on several different matrices. It's free, but time consuming, and somewhat unsightly if you like a manicured landscape.

Interesting! This would be an all-season treatment option. Painting the container black would increase the solar heating effect. I will certainly keep this in mind!

All this talk of using food cooking items had made me realize I have an old food dehydrator and toaster oven that I could possibly put to use at some point.

Out of curiosity though, what is the need for cooking/drying shale? Also what is the need to freeze/thaw shale?

Cooking/drying shale, when alternated with soaking it in a hydrogen peroxide bath, will break the shale down into very small pieces, hopefully without damaging the microfossils we want to look at. Repeated freeze/thaw cycles will have the same effect, for the same purpose.

[Mediospirifer]

I've had the opportunity to tour a number of University of Texas labs. I was amazed when I saw orange extension cords hung from the ceiling tiles on coat hangers. Duct tape and electrical tape patching things together. Homemade contraptions from card stock and masking tape. Dirty sinks. CRT monitors hooked up to old DOS boxes on desks from the fifties. Electrical fans from the fifties. All next to equipment worth tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. Scientists at work make it work with what is at hand. And if it works they move on. Real science is steam punk.

You don't need an ICBM when a shotgun will do.

A hand lens and a hammer can accomplish a lot.

Absolutely! Although, depending on what science the folks you were visiting are doing, some of those contraptions sound dangerous. I work in a chemistry lab as support staff. I've seen more than a few makeshifts!

For that matter, look closely at the microscope photos I posted on your "Show me your Scopes" thread. Plastic tub as a microscope stage, paper party plate holding the samples, flashlight held with rubber band to a small microscope stand balanced on more plastic tubs for lighting... I do a lot of making do!

And messes don't bother me, much. As long as they're not hazardous.

[MarcoSr]

A hammer will probably be next!

That is what I recommended in another of your posts. A little rough on the fossils but works quickly and helps relieve stress.

Marco Sr.

[Mediospirifer]

That is what I recommended in another of your posts. A little rough on the fossils but works quickly and helps relieve stress.

Marco Sr.

Yes, you did. The pieces I'm looking at should split without too much trouble if I can't get them to break down in the peroxide. I think they just need a little encouragement!

[Herb]

I have used both an oven and a microwave to dry SIEVED samples, they both work well as long as it is not an oil shale

[Mediospirifer]

I have used both an oven and a microwave to dry SIEVED samples, they both work well as long as it is not an oil shale

That's good to know, but the pieces I'm looking at now aren't broken down yet. And, I don't know if they're an oil shale or not.