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Two Peace River Ids


calhounensis

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These two were found in the Peace probably a decade ago, they have been in a box without IDs since:

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Largest fish mouthplate I have ever come across. It's a shame it is split in half.

I appreciate any input you can give me,

Daniel

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Interesting fossils. Can you post more views of the mouthplate including the broken edge?

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Thanks for looking Al Dente. It's slightly tumbled by the river, hope that doesn't affect it too much.

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Opposite side

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Broken edge

Edited by calhounensis
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Are you thinking maybe bear canine in the first one?

-Clayton

"We are like butterflies who flutter for a day and think it is forever"

- Carl Segan

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Bear was my first impression. I didn't know which bear it belonged to or whether it was an upper or lower canine.

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Thanks for the additional pictures. I don't have a good answer for your fish mouth plate. Yesterday when I looked at them I was about to say it probably isn't a fish mouth plate but today I dug out all my examples from the Lee Creek Mine as comparisons (around 50 specimens). One thing I noticed about my specimens is they are highly variable in terms of size, shape and number of individual enamel plates within the mouth plate.

The bottom of your mouth plate shows forked ridges that I've never noticed in my specimens but when I looked closely I can see forked ridges in two of my largest specimens. Your fossil is by far much larger than any I have. I think you should send photos to the museum in Gainesville and ask their opinion.

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Al Dente: I should be around Gainesville the first week of July. I have to stop by the IP department, VP is just down the hall so I will show it to Richard in person. I'll let you know what the outcome is.

SS: I ruled out tapir at first because it was more robust than the other tapir canine I have. I do see the resemblance though, that may be something I bring to Richard as well.

Thanks for all the input,

Daniel

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Thanks Lissa, there are a few more unknowns I'm going to add when I have light to photograph them. It's amazing what can be forgotten in a box!

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Bear occurred to me when I first saw that tooth. Dr. Hulbert would likely be able to give you an educated response (and an education while you are at it).

The largest (extant) species in the pufferfish/porcupinefish group is the uncreatively named Porcupinefish (Diodon hystrix) which can get to just under a meter in total length. I've had some near this size peer back at me from their hidey holes on the reef. Quite a shock when their big googly eyes meet your gaze unexpectedly under an overhang!

Even a fish this size would seem unlikely (IMHO) to produce such a large (and thick) mouth plate so this must have come from a monster fish. Don't let the Discovery Channel hear about this or they will fabricate a special based on it. At first I tried to consider what else it could be masquerading as a mouth plate but the shapes and textures sure do seem to indicate that it is the mother of all mouth plates. Would be interested to hear what the Gainesville folk have to say about it.

Cheers.

-Ken

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