garyc Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Found this beauty today on the Brazos River. I'm sure it's proboscidean, but is there any way to tell if mammoth or mastodon? This is the most complete vert I have found. Pretty exciting! 1
Auspex Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 I know not from which creature it came, but it is in fantastic shape! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease!
garyc Posted August 6, 2014 Author Posted August 6, 2014 Yes, it's in great condition. The centrum itself is about 5 inches across. From comparing on line it looks like a thoracic. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
JohnJ Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Absolutely, a beauty! Congrats, Gary. I'm pretty sure you have a mammoth axis vertebra. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Do while you can because the day will come when you cannot...and you would give much to do it one more time. - JJ
JohnJ Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 It's in much better shape than the one I've found. A very cool find. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Do while you can because the day will come when you cannot...and you would give much to do it one more time. - JJ
garyc Posted August 6, 2014 Author Posted August 6, 2014 What would differentiate it between mammoth and mastodon?
JohnJ Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Notice the differences between this mastodon vertebra and yours along the lower (ventral) edge. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Do while you can because the day will come when you cannot...and you would give much to do it one more time. - JJ
garyc Posted August 6, 2014 Author Posted August 6, 2014 Thanks, John. I do see the difference. I was guessing and hoping it would be mammoth as this was found in the same location, within about 50 yds of where I found a large chunk of mammoth jaw not long ago. There's got to be more of this beast there. I hope to share more.
Uncle Siphuncle Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Great find. Not many of these things seem to surface in good condition in Texas. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils."
JohnJ Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Thanks, John. I do see the difference. I was guessing and hoping it would be mammoth as this was found in the same location, within about 50 yds of where I found a large chunk of mammoth jaw not long ago. There's got to be more of this beast there. I hope to share more. :popcorn: The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Do while you can because the day will come when you cannot...and you would give much to do it one more time. - JJ
RichW9090 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) It appears to be a axis vertebrae - you can see the remnants of the foramina on each side of the centrum, although part of the bordering rim is broken off. Also, the dens is clearly visible in the middle of the anterior face. A quick check (but I don't have the key reference at hand, seems more like a mastodon than a mammoth. https://umorf.ummp.lsa.umich.edu/wp/buesching-mastodon-head-axial-skeleton/ Edited August 7, 2014 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".
garyc Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 Rich, that is an outstanding reference you linked to. Is there one for mammoth as well?
RichW9090 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Gary, not that I'm aware of - but on the Internet, that doesn't mean much. I discover more every time I search. I usually use Stan Olsen's osteology of mammoth and mastodon, but i don't have it at home in the office. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".
JohnJ Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Thanks for that reference, Rich. If it's mastodon, then that edges up the rarity of the find for that area. Their parts seem to be encountered less often. I'm still curious about what appear to be differences in the shape of Gary's find...although they could just be a function of the photographic angle. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Do while you can because the day will come when you cannot...and you would give much to do it one more time. - JJ
RichW9090 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 John, I've looked at quite a few, and the cervical verts of the proboscideans seem too be very variable. I wouldn't want to say for certain whether mammoth or mastodon unless I had it in hand and a good collection to which to compare it. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".
garyc Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 I might have to take this one to Bob Bakker at the Houston Museum. Looking at the mastodon 3d images, I can see both similarities and differences. That's why I was hoping for a 3d mammoth image to compare it too. Also, my gut tells me this is from the same mammoth as the chunk of jaw I found.
MikeD Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Wow, Gary! I need to go hunting with you more often......
garyc Posted August 7, 2014 Author Posted August 7, 2014 Wow, Gary! I need to go hunting with you more often...... Just say "when", Mike!
vertman Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Late to the party I know, but I wanted to say, "Wow"! Great fossil vert! 1
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