Thoughts On This Trilobite?

[Jesuslover340]

It's claimed to be from Morocco, so I was curious as to other, more experienced opinions on it. Is it real, do you think, and what species is it? Thanks in advance for any help!

http://i.imgur.com/fmIqLik.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WMBqcXZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0py7jhk.jpg

[Raggedy Man]

Looks real to me. Not the super best condition and common. As far as what species, I will have to say Phacops speculator, but we'll see. Over all its a nice piece.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Raggedy Man

[fossilized6s]

Personally i wouldn't pay more then $5 for it. It's pretty rough. There aren't any details left in the eyes, bad prep and why is the matrix so big for such a small bug?

Edited May 4, 2015 by fossilized6s

[Jesuslover340]

Thank you very much-it was claimed to be Phacops africanus, but again, wanted to be sure. It was a gift, and that's what truly matters

[Raggedy Man]

Charlie, yep I also never understood the need to leave all that matrix behind.

[Raggedy Man]

The pygidium though not visually clear, looks like P. africanus, but the eyes are too distorted and lack the definition. It could be africanus. Can you post a better photo of the eyes and or pygidium?

Best regards,

Paul

[piranha]

"Phacops speculator" is a dealer created species that does not exist. Sorry to report there is no possible species determination without counting the eye lenses first. Furthermore, the features of the trilobite are not actually consistent with a 'phacopid'. Instead it appears to a proetid (Gerastos) because of the slim thoracic axial rings and wide pygidial axis.

[Raggedy Man]

Thanks for clearing that up piranha. I thought speculator sounded weird. I am by no means an expert on moroccan trilobites. I have 2. One from a forum auction and another from a close friend. I typically stay away from them so my knowledge of them is limited. Thanks again for clearing that up!

Paul

[piranha]

Unfortunately some dealers have been calling all Moroccan phacopids by that name for many years now. Although it doesn't exist now, "Phacops" speculator was erected as a new species by Alberti 1970. Alberti's 1970 "P. speculator" was the only paper ever published with that name, and now because of some very distinct differences it's classified in the genus Austerops. The taxonomy can get confusing at times!

 

Alberti, G.K.B. (1970)

Trilobiten des jüngeren Siluriums sowie des Unter- und Mitteldevons. Part II.

Trilobites of the late Silurian, as well as the early and middle Devonian; part 2.

Abh. Der Senckenbergischen Naturforschenden Gesellschaft, 525:1-233

 

Quote

"Austerops species clearly differ in terms of their glabellar proportions, doublure sculpture, and a large suite of characters pertaining to the size and position of the eye upon the cephalon."

Austerops speculator (Alberti, 1970)

Austerops speculator speculator (Alberti, 1970)

Phacops (Phacops) cf. rana milleri Stewart; (Alberti, 1969)

Phacops fecundus Barrande; (Gigout, 1965)

Phacops fecundus Barrande; (Gigout, 1955)

Phacops fecundus Barrande; (Gigout, 1951)

 

Chatterton, B.D.E., & McKellar, R.C. (2009)

Early and Middle Devonian Phacopidae (Trilobita) of southern Morocco.

Palaeontographica Canadiana, 28:1-110

 

 

 

[Jesuslover340]

Learning new things I have never considered going after any Moroccan trilobites due to so many fakes, but again, this was a gift, and curiosity killed the cat

http://i.imgur.com/VkJUtl3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/S5lS69t.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yhdhB0S.jpg

[piranha]

This image is clear proof it's a proetid (Gerastos). It looks like some bug bondo has been applied to smooth it over. At least you didn't pay for it!

[Jesuslover340]

Thank you very much! It was only $10, so not much to worry about.

[Fred]

These new pictures indeed confirm this is a Gerastos. Some heavy restorations there, in particular the margins and the left hand side of the pygidium (tail section).

[abyssunder]

[Macrophyseter]

and also, make sure about the location it is from. There are certain places in Morocco that do not have trilobite fossils. And Xtra Info, Atlas Mountains are a rich source of trilobite fossils.

[Redlichia]

Gerastos sp. , Eifelian, Devonian, probable from Djebel Issoumour.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Redlichia

[Jesuslover340]

Thanks everyone! The card it came with states it's from the Hamar formation.

[Fred]

That is just some sales talk. There is no such formation.

Hamar Laghdad however, is a location east of Erfoud, on the Talifalt plateau. But the term is used to sell trilobites from all over that region, so it has little information value.

[Wrangellian]

I wonder how much more these things would be valued if:

-they didn't butcher them in trying to prep

-pics were better!

-accurate strat./location data was included with sale

[Auspex]

I wonder how much more these things would be valued if:

-they didn't butcher them in trying to prep

-pics were better!

-accurate strat./location data was included with sale

Gift and curio shop purchasers not only do not care about such, they do not know that they should care, do not know enough to assess things in any case, and have no interest in knowing more than they are told about them at the point of sale.

[Wrangellian]

Gift and curio shop purchasers not only do not care about such, they do not know that they should care, do not know enough to assess things in any case, and have no interest in knowing more than they are told about them at the point of sale.

Maybe if they knew there were people like me who would pay more for such attention to details, they could ask for more money. I guess I am too rare an exception, but it only takes one buyer to make that buy (or I guess two, if you need competition to get that price up). Of course there are plenty of sellers who do have good fossils and good info, with higher prices, and I can only afford so many of these!

[Auspex]

...Of course there are plenty of sellers who do have good fossils and good info, with higher prices, and I can only afford so many of these!

That may have made my point quite nicely!

[Wrangellian]

That may have made my point quite nicely!

But I am not a good representation of a fossil buyer, casual or serious, as I have less money than most.

What I don't understand is, why do some dealers have fossils, from a given source in Morocco, with data and not butchered, while others have the same fossils from the same area but without these qualities? Are there different collectors, some more careful than others, or do some of the dealers deliberately ignore/lose the data that would come with them from the supplier? And who would ask for butchered fossils when they could ask for non-butchered examples and possibly get more for them (Seem to be lots of people at least here on TFF who are interested in trying their hand at prepping and would do a better job than anyone could do with a nail, and speaking for myself, I would rather have an unprepped example than a badly-prepped one)

Edited May 12, 2015 by Wrangellian

[Auspex]

Just being a fossil dealer doesn't make someone knowledgeable about fossils; they are just repeating what they were told.

[Wrangellian]

It sounds like we should campaign to get fossil dealers who order from Morocco (and other places) to make sure they get accurate info with their orders, if the suppliers know it (they at least know the locations - maybe they are secretive about these?) I don't see why you would have to be a knowledgeable dealer to get this info, just ask for it. I have more than once already asked dealers for location/strat data and you know the response I get, but it doesn't hurt to ask: maybe if enough of us ask for this they might get the message.